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Comment: Migrated to Confluence 4.0

[08:26:11 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy jessm the idi mockups show tweets from one twitter acct (@inclusivedesign). that acct is owned by someone else. do we/will we have a single IDI twitter? or will it be a list of tweets like on the current idrc site
[08:27:19 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> heidi_: eek, you're right – someone has that twitter name
[08:27:43 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> heidi_: good question re: feed or not – I think i don't know the answer so we should probably make it capable of handling feeds
[08:28:34 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> k, so for now similar to current idrc site? will someone set up an IDI twitter acct (is there one?)
[08:33:07 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> heidi_: there isn't
[08:33:14 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> i was just checking for what we could do
[08:33:28 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> we don't want it too long or else it will take up a lot of characters
[08:33:50 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> but @idesign and @inclusivedesign are taken
[08:34:20 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> maybe @inclusivedi ?
[08:35:21 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jessm: this is a slight divergence.. but i set up github organizations under inclusive-design and inclusivedesign
[08:35:23 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jessm yeah i think that's fine. who will be posting to it/managing it?
[08:35:41 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> heidi_: i dunno
[08:35:51 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> Justin_o: i'll check to see if we can do those
[08:36:03 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o do they allow dashes in twitter names? @inclusive-design would be good
[08:36:40 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> heidi_: i dunno
[08:36:41 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jessm if we don't have an IDI twitter-er maybe going with proj feeds would be best ?
[08:36:49 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> What if we used other words too? Like, "@thisisidi" ?
[08:37:01 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> jameswy: good idea
[08:37:32 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> heidi_: either way we should prepare for feeds
[08:37:41 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> k
[08:38:04 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy do you have time to send mockup imgs today?
[08:39:08 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: Mockups for what in particular? How the feeds would work?
[08:39:56 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy images from the idi website mockup http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/IDI+website+mockups
[08:41:54 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: Right. Not sure I have time for it until I'm done with the Floe design for next week, but the vector files are in the wiki if you need the exports asap.
[08:42:00 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> Chi might also be able to help with it.
[08:42:16 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> (if you need them sooner than later)
[08:42:23 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> sooner the better
[08:42:27 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> chi on here?
[08:42:40 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> No, she's not on IRC.
[08:43:21 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> I'm due to chat with her this afternoon, so I can ask her if she can help you out with that.
[08:43:44 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy yes please. even just getting the logo and the background images would be a good start
[08:44:47 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: Which background images in particular?
[08:45:09 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy the carousel , the yellow, the blue
[08:45:47 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: I think Chi's still nailing down colours, so those might not be ready yet. We'll see where she's at today.
[08:46:01 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy wait this isn't the final mockup?
[08:46:58 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: It's final in terms of layout and functionality, but Chi was still exploring some of the colour palettes.
[08:47:33 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy when will chi be done exploring?
[08:48:45 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> jessm: What do you think? ^ (I'm thinking this week colours should go final in some form)
[08:49:20 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> jameswy: yep, we should be able to finalize this week
[08:49:21 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy jessm are we still aiming to have something live next week?
[08:49:32 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> heidi_: they're subtle variations, not big changes
[08:49:45 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> heidi_: we're aiming to have something in progress and happening as soon as we can
[08:49:54 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> there isn't a firm deadline, but rather an urgency
[08:51:18 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> i just set up @thisisIDI on twitter
[08:52:53 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> thanks jessm
[08:56:04 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> morning
[08:58:35 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> huslage: morning
[09:06:08 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: morning Aaron, any clues what's happening with wiki.atutor.ca images.
[09:08:44 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> hey greggy1 just looking now
[09:23:33 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> greggy1: can you make a user for me and make it an admin on that wiki?
[09:23:38 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i need to see some config info
[09:24:07 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> k, give me a minute
[09:25:04 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> huslage: if you have some time today.. still having some troubles with jira
[09:25:17 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> what's wrong, Justin_o ?
[09:25:31 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> huslage: i guess you missed my message yesterday (smile)
[09:25:37 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> spose so
[09:25:54 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i suck.
[09:27:03 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> huslage: so there are things that aren't quite working.. so logging in is strange.. i keep getting login errors, but if i refresh the page i'm logged in... but the widgets on the dashboard don't fill in... also the bonfire browser plugins can't connect to jira, and the suggestimate plugin isn't quite working.. you'd have to ask michelled_ or yura_ how that's supposed to look though .. since they use it in cspace
[09:27:20 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> ok
[09:27:37 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> looking after i check out greggy1's thing
[09:27:45 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> huslage: thanks
[09:27:56 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: sent to gmail
[09:27:59 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> ta
[09:36:58 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> greggy1: the license for the wiki is expired. i need to fix that
[09:37:05 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> or someone does
[09:38:17 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> that shouldn't be causing the images to not appear. Have you looked at permissions?
[09:38:49 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> not sure I want to renew. I've been thinking about migrating off confluence
[09:40:17 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> Justin_o: i have a jsLint question...
[09:40:18 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: ^
[09:40:43 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i know, greggy1 … a side issue
[09:40:46 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> still looking at stuff
[09:40:53 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> Justin_o: it says deepEqual is not defined when I am trying to call it straight from the jqunit library
[09:41:34 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> sorry, qunit, not jqunit
[10:03:23 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> harriswong: i'd probably have to take a look
[10:12:39 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i don't get it greggy1 the attachments are there in the filesystem AND in the database. everything is pointing the right place and the permissions are fine.
[10:13:39 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: hm? Let me look closer.
[10:14:09 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> part of the problem is that this is an ages-old install of confluence
[10:15:06 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: the problem started just recently when confluence went down, about a week ago.
[10:15:13 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> yeah
[10:15:50 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i've cleared the cache and everything
[10:17:43 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: database related maybe?
[10:17:51 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> it seems ok
[10:18:23 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: are you able to id the images in the db by the reference used in attachements
[10:18:51 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> yes
[10:18:58 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> but the images themselves are in the database
[10:19:06 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> as well
[10:19:26 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: ste to binary output?
[10:19:30 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> set
[10:19:39 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> yes
[10:20:26 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> let me try adding a new attachement
[10:26:11 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: new attachments seems to be okay
[10:26:32 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> strange
[10:27:09 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> 2011-07-19 11:25:52,467 WARN [http-38080-16] [atlassian.confluence.themes.DefaultThemeManager] extractTheme Unable to find configured theme module: com.artemis.commentstab:commentstab-theme
[10:29:05 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: how did you produce this error?
[10:29:19 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> looking in the logs. anytime we load a page, it throws
[10:29:42 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> let me try a different theme ...
[10:30:29 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> watch the log for a moment
[10:30:47 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: ^
[10:31:18 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> looking
[10:31:51 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: anything?
[10:31:53 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> same deal
[10:31:53 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> 2011-07-19 11:31:56,453 WARN [http-38080-8] [atlassian.confluence.themes.DefaultThemeManager] extractTheme Unable to find configured theme module: com.artemis.commentstab:commentstab-theme
[10:31:59 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> k
[10:32:08 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> 2011-07-19 11:31:56,238 ERROR [http-38080-11] [atlassian.confluence.pages.DefaultAttachmentManager] getAttachmentData Could not find data for attachment: Attachment: atutorwiki v.1 (6782978) - No AttachmentData object was returned when it was expected for attachment: Attachment: atutorwiki v.1 (6782978)
[10:33:48 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> javax.servlet.error.exception: java.lang.ClassCastException: com.atlassian.confluence.setup.settings.GlobalDescription cannot be cast to com.atlassian.confluence.pages.AbstractPage
[10:34:09 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/CONFKB/Resolve+Missing+Attachments+in+Confluence
[10:34:46 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> for Confluence 3.0 however
[10:37:30 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> there is a download that might work for 2.x at:
[10:37:32 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> http://confluence.atlassian.com/pages/viewpageattachments.action?pageId=201761
[10:38:01 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: can you try installing it.
[10:38:12 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> ok
[10:39:29 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> running now
[10:40:34 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> well.
[10:40:37 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> it's just a report
[10:40:39 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> that's nice and all
[10:40:46 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> but it's not gonna fix it
[10:40:53 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> arg
[10:41:51 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> the organization of everything is quite odd
[10:42:43 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: hm, maybe this is the push we need to get off confluence
[10:42:48 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> lol
[10:42:49 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> yeah
[10:46:14 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> does anyone from the fluid team have any experience with missing attachments in Confluence?
[10:46:42 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> colinclark: ^
[10:46:56 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> Justin_o: ^
[10:47:48 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> anastasiac: should table of contents standalone demo be moved up to the actual demo page?
[10:48:57 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> greggy1: not sure.. what's wrong exactly?
[10:49:37 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> Justin_o: all the images in the atutor wiki are listed as missing, even though they do exist in the db
[10:50:19 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> greggy1: really.. hmm i suppose they don't show up the attachments view on the wiki at all?
[10:50:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I've never noticed attachments disappearing in Confluence, no
[10:50:26 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> harriswong, good question (smile)
[10:50:58 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> Justin_o: no they don't show up anywhere.
[10:51:12 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> huslage: Do you know what the migration experience is like from Confluence to MediaWiki, for example? I can imagine going the other way is very easy, but export might not be so awesome
[10:51:59 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> no idea
[10:52:03 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> harriswong, the ToC component wasn't something we'd originally "marketed" as a component, it's mostly just used by UIOptions. If we want to promote it, we'd need to add it to the main demo portal page, etc. Perhaps we should consider that, but I suspect not for this release. Maybe Justin_o could weigh in on that
[10:52:07 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> it exports fine to a standard xml format
[10:53:11 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> anastasiac: o
[10:53:13 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> anastasiac: ok*
[10:53:39 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> greggy1: can you renew the license?
[10:53:57 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: we can
[10:54:05 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> make it so
[10:54:09 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: will probably have to upgrade
[10:54:13 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> greggy1: sorry.. that's a bit lower level than i've been in with confluence.. not sure what's up with that
[10:54:13 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i'm doing it
[10:54:26 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> it looks like there was a failed upgrade already
[10:54:32 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> to 3.0.1
[10:54:41 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> okay, I'll get a new licence .....
[10:54:43 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> which is why the attachments are barfed
[10:55:11 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> hm, I don't remember attempting to upgrade
[10:55:16 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> someone had
[10:55:46 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: are you saying it won't upgrade now?
[10:55:56 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> no. because the license is out of date
[10:56:06 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> okay, I'll get a license now
[10:56:42 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: oh oh confluence is now down
[10:56:46 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> yeah
[10:57:16 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: are you trying to bring it back up
[10:57:22 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> yup
[10:59:39 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> HAH!
[10:59:56 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> fixed it
[11:00:02 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i think
[11:00:02 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> images too?
[11:01:24 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> apparently
[11:01:39 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i moved the directory, ran the upgrade again, put it back and magically things worked
[11:01:42 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i don't get it
[11:02:18 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> okay, that's great. I suppose we should upgrade anyway
[11:02:22 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> yeah
[11:02:33 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> give me a minute to get the license
[11:02:34 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> it's still whining about the license
[11:05:39 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: okay, license is updated
[11:05:52 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> thanks
[11:06:05 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> now it says we're using v3.0.1
[11:06:28 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> yes greggy1
[11:06:47 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> that was the one that had failed, so i stuck with it
[11:07:09 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: are you going to upgrade to the latest
[11:07:21 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> maybe after lunch
[11:07:30 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> if that's what you want
[11:07:30 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: k,thx
[11:07:39 CDT(-0500)] <greggy1> huslage: might as well
[11:07:44 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> k
[11:07:47 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> will do
[11:09:17 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> ok bbiab everyone.
[11:22:21 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> Justin_o: added jira for IE7 gap problem, FLUID-4346
[11:22:33 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> harriswong: thank you
[11:22:50 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> harriswong: have you made a pull request yet?
[11:23:20 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> Justin_o: I also noticed IE7, 8 fails to work with native js call on str.substr(-1). Is this a known issue?
[11:23:40 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> Justin_o: not yet, was running tests and demo via ie7,8,9,chrome, ff.
[11:24:06 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> harriswong: okay.. was just going to say to add a comment on the pull request about the jira you just filed
[11:24:17 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> harriswong: what's the problem with IE
[11:24:43 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> with the substr that is
[11:25:05 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> Justin_o: if you use substr(-1), it returns the whole string on ie7,8. IE9, ff, chrome would return the last character.
[11:25:32 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> Justin_o: i fixed my tests with str.substr(str.length -1 ) instead.
[11:27:28 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> harriswong: ah okay...
[11:28:02 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> that's too bad though
[11:28:06 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> =(
[11:28:15 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> I hope i didn't miss anything, pull request now.
[11:28:48 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> harriswong: thanks..
[11:29:02 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i guess michelled or Bosmon will look at it
[11:32:00 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: do you remember which css files needed the !important injections
[11:32:15 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o the theme files
[11:32:31 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> maybe fss-text, i'm not sure
[11:32:37 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> maybe check 1.3 to see
[11:33:05 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: okay... thanks
[11:37:44 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> michelled, cindyli: i have initiated a pull request for FLUID-4209. Justin_o asked me to ping you to see if there is anything that needs me to work on? Something about the unit test or integrating toc onto uio?
[11:40:03 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> greetings all from Nigeria. (smile)
[11:40:56 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: how's it going.. how was the flight and everything there?
[11:41:33 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o, it was good. Flight was long, but good. Still suffering from bad jetlag. (smile)
[11:42:00 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: ah.. that's too bad.. you're 5 hours ahead?
[11:42:22 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> but it looks like there may be a strike grounding domestic flights, so we may not make it to Bayero University in Kano tomorrow.
[11:42:47 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o yep, 5 hours difference.
[11:42:59 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> oh .. that's a shame.. hope your schedule doesn't get too messed up
[11:43:26 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> how are the meetings going so far
[11:45:10 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> the meetings are good. Had a very productive day at UI yesterday. I think I have a good idea of what needs to be done there wrt to decapod.
[11:45:40 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> However, since we may not make it to Kano, we'll have to rely on them getting answers to a list of questions.
[11:47:15 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: anything interesting needed.. will we have to make any changes to the design and etc.?
[11:49:26 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: tbd. I need to process my notes. But right now, as far as Ibadan is concerned, we may need to support importing of images.
[11:50:10 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> most of their material is loose leaf or small booklets / pamphlets. So it's not medium, or large books.
[11:50:33 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> They're using flatbeds currently, so may just use that since they're already familiar with it.
[11:52:05 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> harriswong: i have a branch 4295 that's to integrate the new toc dated from about a month ago. not sure if it would still work with your latest toc. maybe you can try it out if u have time. all the info is in http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-4295
[11:54:10 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: oh interesting.. so they wouldn't use decapod for the capture portion at all
[11:55:11 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> cindyli: sure.
[11:56:34 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: not for majority of their materials. But I'm sure if they had both options they would use it.
[11:56:39 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> thanks, harriswong
[11:57:33 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: Bayero's materials may be different, so we'll need to examine that, their existing process, and their infrastructure before figuring out what we need to do for Decapod in Nigeria.
[11:59:36 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> ah i see
[12:08:55 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> colinclark, jessm: I hope to catch both of you sometime today if possible.
[12:09:23 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: colinclark is off to lunch at the moment
[12:12:22 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: thanks. Btw, is there an easy way to resize a batch of images quickly using Mac OSX?
[12:18:25 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> herro
[12:19:46 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: hmm.. not sure.. haven't ever tried that
[12:20:27 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jameswy: do you know if there is a way to do that ^
[12:20:44 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> nm. justin_o, I just created an action in Photoshop to do what I want.
[12:21:19 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: okay.. i'll have to ask you how to do that later (smile)
[12:22:23 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: sure, I can show you once I'm back. (smile)
[12:22:47 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: (smile) thanks
[12:28:31 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> fluid-everyone: if you're curious to see what Decapod will be doing at University of Ibadan in Nigeria, take a look at this page: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Decapod+-+University+of+Ibadan
[12:30:07 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Heading out for drinks and 'suya'. Back a little later. (smile)
[13:10:19 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jhung_afk good to see you made it safe n sound
[13:27:30 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: r u there?
[13:42:34 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> hi cindyli
[13:43:12 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> ha, Bosmon, my life saver
[13:43:20 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> My CATT is also here
[13:43:48 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: lol hope it can also help
[13:44:40 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: working on uiOptions unit test. the current issue is that it hangs on the second round of the instantiation of uiOptons.loader
[13:44:48 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> let me grab the code
[13:45:15 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> cindyli: i got merge conflict on your FLUID-4295 with FatPanelUIOptions/html/uiOptions.html, FullNoPreviewUIOptions/html/uiOFullPreviewUIOptions/html/uiOptions.htmlptions.html,
[13:45:49 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> cindyli: do you think you can merge it with current master and push it up? Then i will do a merge again on my end
[13:46:11 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> sure, harriswong, can i do it later after the conversation with Bosmon?
[13:46:17 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> cindyli: sure
[13:46:22 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> thanks, harriswong
[13:46:55 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: as u know that we call the same function to test each ayncTest, the function is: Bosmon: as u know that
[13:47:16 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> the function: https://github.com/cindyli/infusion/blob/FLUID-4317/src/webapp/tests/component-tests/uiOptions/js/UIOptionsTests.js#L95-100
[13:48:54 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: so basically it's the same component being tested. the issue is at line 98, the instantiation of top level compoenent
[13:49:02 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidi_, I have a question about the new fl-clearfix style: how does it relate to the old fl-fix and fl-push?
[13:49:40 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> the first time when it gets called, everything goes thru correctly, uiOptions.loader is instantiated with all the subcomponents
[13:50:30 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> however, from the 2nd time this line gets called, initComponent stops at uiOptinos.loader without instantiating further into uiOptions
[13:50:46 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac if i remember correctly fl-fix uses overflow:auto which sometimes causes scrollbars in some situations. fl-clearfix is an alternative to that that doesn't cause scrollbars but doesn't work in all situations. fl-push just clears a div
[13:51:00 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> there's a clearfix test page that i think make it into trunk, did it Justin_o ?
[13:51:17 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> cindyli: fyi, i went on ahead and resolved the conflict manually. I will pull from you again once you updated it.
[13:51:21 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ok, so clearfix has the same goal as fix, but does a better job, heidi_?
[13:51:35 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> should we deprecate fl-fix?
[13:51:48 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac more like, it's an alternative. fl-fix works best in some situations, and fl-clearfix in others. you can see the difference in that test page i think
[13:51:52 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> same goal tho
[13:52:00 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> which test page?
[13:52:01 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: so that uiOptions event "onUIOptionsComponentReady" never gets fired, so does uiOptions.onReady, where the asynTest function gets run
[13:52:05 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> cindyli - I meant to talk with you about the policy involving the PageEnhancer
[13:52:16 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> sure, Bosmon
[13:52:19 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I don't think that its use in FatPanel is correct
[13:52:30 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And also to talk with Justin_o about requirements for UIOptions before we can freeze it
[13:52:46 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I think it is essential that the UIOptions we deliver in the release can actually be configured
[13:52:57 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac hm, not sure if Justin_o 's clearfix test page made it into trunk
[13:53:12 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So, say, for example, one wants to get configuration options in to a particular "half-ant" in UIOptions, like textSize
[13:53:24 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> As the component is written right now, this is essentially impossible
[13:53:41 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So, cindyli, right now there are lots of "global risks" in the implementation, firstly the pageEnhancer, and secondly in this test
[13:54:05 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It uses a global function "fluid.uiOptionsTests.testFn" to pass in the test configuration, which is a dangerous policy
[13:54:15 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And may be responsible for your current test failure, or at least be related to it
[13:56:20 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> cindyli: my 4295 branch merged with 4209 seems to not have the error anymore. :0
[13:56:23 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> (smile)*
[13:56:32 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: yes.. the clearfix test page should be in trunk
[13:56:35 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> cool, harriswong
[13:56:48 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o where abouts is it?
[13:56:58 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: is there a better way to test? i think uiOptionsLoader onReady event is the only place that we know the component is ready to test
[13:57:20 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> cindyli - all the testing functions should only appear as arguments sent in to the component's constructor
[13:57:29 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: should be in the fss demos
[13:57:36 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And the fact that we can't test this way is exactly equivalent to the problem that the users cannot configure our component (tongue)
[13:57:43 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Designing for testability ==== designing for use (tongue)
[13:57:52 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> ic
[13:58:00 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So, there is also a really big problem in the design of FatPanel in that it has "pageEnhancer" as a subcomponent
[13:58:10 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> This component can't ever appear in a standard component tree since it makes global assumptions
[13:58:38 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And because of these assumptions has a non-standard construction process
[13:58:53 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> "pageEnhancer" was only ever designed to be used by users directly, and not in an IoC tree
[14:03:48 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> cindyli, Justin_o - https://github.com/michelled/infusion/blob/FLUID-4323/src/webapp/components/uiOptions/js/UIEnhancer.js#L401-411
[14:03:56 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: i see.. i guess we could call the page enhancer directly in the iframe
[14:03:57 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So this is a section from the branch of UIO I made for the Washington demo
[14:04:06 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: but then it wouldn't be configurable without providing a new iframe html page
[14:04:28 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And it shows the kind of contortions you need to go through to get configuration into the UIEnhancer in the current setup
[14:04:42 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Justin_o - there's a problem in that there are two UIEnhancers - why is there more than one?
[14:04:57 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Shouldn't there just be the main enhancer that targets the main page for live preview?
[14:06:17 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: there are two enhancers.. since you need to be able to enhance uiOptions itself
[14:06:40 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac not sure if you got that - but there's a clearfix demo in demos/fss
[14:06:50 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Justin_o - I see
[14:06:50 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidi_, yes, thanks - just looking at it now
[14:06:53 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> cool
[14:07:04 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Justin_o - but, the enhancement of the UIO interface itself "lags behind" the live preview, right?
[14:07:09 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It only gets enhanced when you save your options?
[14:07:39 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Updates in my FLUID-4219 branch
[14:07:52 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: well there's a bug there.. it's supposed to actually autosave, which it doesn't now.. but it should only enhance uio when the panel is closed and reopened
[14:08:08 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Justin_o - it's not meant to enhance on save?
[14:08:11 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: thanks.. i'll merge that in
[14:08:24 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Or is there no save...
[14:08:35 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Saving occurs only when you close the panel?
[14:08:49 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: currently yet, but it's actually supposed to happen on every change
[14:09:25 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> that should have been "currently yes"
[14:09:30 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Anyway, we can get round to that subtlety once we have fewer problems (tongue)
[14:09:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> the save should happen on every save
[14:09:40 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> on every change..
[14:09:41 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> (sad)
[14:09:49 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: (smile)
[14:09:53 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i like fewer problems
[14:09:57 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I take the point that there need to be two enhancers, one on the inside, and one on the outside, which at most times have a different configuration
[14:09:59 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Is that right?
[14:10:13 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: yes, that's correct
[14:10:21 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> chideng: hi chi!
[14:10:27 CDT(-0500)] <chideng> hi jess!
[14:10:48 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> ok - so, if the user wants to send "configuration" to UIEnhancers, it actually needs to be able to hit both of these enhancers
[14:11:02 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Say, for example, they want to configure the min and max options for the text slider
[14:11:36 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> that's part of uiOptions, not pageEnhancer, right?
[14:11:42 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> heidi_: jameswy: chideng is here in IRC!
[14:11:55 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> chideng welcome !!
[14:11:59 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> Welcome to the channel, chideng!
[14:13:08 CDT(-0500)] <chideng> hi jess, heidi and james!!
[14:13:20 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> chideng: If you want to grab someone's attention in the channel, it's easiest if you use their handle/irc-name in your message. Most of us have it set up so that we're nudged when our irc-name is mentioned.
[14:13:29 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> fluid-everyone: chideng is helping make the IDI site amazing and she'll be working closely with heidi_ and jameswy
[14:13:31 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> cindyli - ok, perhaps some other configuration which the enhancement process itself needs - for example, needing to change the "classnameMap"
[14:13:42 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: tue
[14:13:58 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> *true
[14:13:59 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> welcome, chideng
[14:14:01 CDT(-0500)] <chideng> jameswy: gotcha
[14:14:11 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> chideng, welcome
[14:14:24 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> In my demo I made a "simplifier" half-ant which needed to be passed some configuration - and it was impossible to get the configuration into the enhancers without making an awful hack
[14:14:28 CDT(-0500)] <chideng> hello everyone!!
[14:14:31 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Which exposed the problem with our use of "pageEnhancer"
[14:14:54 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> i see
[14:15:28 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Since every call to "pageEnhancer" puts something into the static environment, it is likely that it is interfering with your tests running too
[14:15:46 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> good point
[14:15:59 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So my first suggestion is that you improve the tests and the FatPanel wrapper so that it is possible to write tests without affecting the global state
[14:16:10 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> If you do that, your problems on running the tests a 2nd time may miraculously "go away" (tongue)
[14:16:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> hey chideng, welcome!
[14:17:44 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> i see Bosmon. one issue with fat panel is to remove "pageEnhancer" from IoC tree
[14:17:49 CDT(-0500)] <chideng> colinclark: hi
[14:18:10 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: other suggestions to improve fat panel?
[14:18:35 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> cindyli - I think those two issues are crucial
[14:18:53 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Once we have done that, then we can take an inventory of Justin_o's options chewing code to make sure it can chew all the options which the tree can accept
[14:19:27 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But until PageEnhancer is removed from the tree directly, it will be impossible for his chewing to work without a hack like the one I have in my demo branch
[14:19:58 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> ok
[14:20:31 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Before we ship, I think we will need to write a test case demonstrating that, say, the "classnameMap" can be configured by the user correctly
[14:21:16 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I'll lay you a ha'penny bun to half a pound of dried bananas that we currently have no such test (tongue)
[14:22:00 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: by passing in "classnameMap" as an option into pageEnhancer?
[14:22:15 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> instead of a demands block to IoC tree?
[14:23:29 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: my another question is the "pageEnhancer" in tests. "pageEnhancer" is not a part of IoC tree in the test, but from a separate call
[14:23:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o, michelled: I guess this is one option for the future: http://howtonode.org/intro-to-jake
[14:23:55 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> a couple of asynTest needs "pageEnhancer" with a slightly different set of options
[14:24:07 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I looked at the jake page itself and it seemed to have an awful lot of frightening Rubyisms
[14:24:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> like support for "ERB" files and the like
[14:24:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but in its most basic form it looks like it should be able to replace our use of Ant
[14:24:54 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: one of my thoughts is to delete the previously instantiated "pageEnhancer" from the static environment
[14:25:35 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: but considering the tests and uiOptions are running asynchronously, this approach may delete pageEnhancer at wrong time
[14:26:19 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: for instance, at a time that the pageEnhancer is still needed
[14:27:38 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: any idea?
[14:36:47 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> cindyli - I think it would be best for there to be no pageEnhancer in the static environment
[14:36:51 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> At least, in these test cases
[14:37:21 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon, i'm trying to instantiate uiEnhancer directly
[14:37:27 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> There should be some test cases which test the use of the pageEnhancer, but recalling our previous discussion that this component is only designed to be used by end users directly
[14:37:41 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So the test cases should test that kind of usage
[14:37:59 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> cindyli - yes, to your earlier question
[14:38:22 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I think in order to ship, it should be possible for an end user to configure the classnameMap simply by means of options to the component
[14:38:29 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And without the use of a demands block
[14:38:36 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Justin_o - do you think that is a reasonable requirement?
[14:38:47 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: but need to figure out a way to attach the uiEnhancer onto uiOptions, which is currently thru a demands block looking up uiEnhancer in static environment
[14:38:58 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> cindyli - That's right
[14:39:48 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But actually I'm not sure why the pageEnhancer was ever in the static environment in the first place
[14:39:52 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Do any of us remember the reason?
[14:40:54 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> michelled might have some insights
[14:41:37 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: i think that makes sense
[14:42:21 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Certainly, if it is in the static environment, creating what is really a SECOND pageEnhancer in FatPanel seems extremely dangerous
[14:42:27 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And is likely to cause our users a lot of problems
[14:43:46 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> cindyli - this one here - https://github.com/cindyli/infusion/blob/FLUID-4317/src/webapp/components/uiOptions/js/FatPanelUIOptions.js#L92-95
[14:50:34 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: i think the original idea was that pageEnhancer is using "body" container, which means, one page is intended to have only one pageEnhancer, which is relatively safe to have it registered in the static enviroment
[14:50:56 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: fat panel is a special case that it has an iframe enhanced differently from the main page
[14:51:28 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> cindyli - I mean, in that case, this situation with fat panel will actually cause THREE pageEnhancers to be created
[14:51:30 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: but since iframe is an independent page itself with its own inner fluid
[14:51:43 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I believe the idea with pageEnhancer is for the user to just call fluid.pageEnhancer() on any page they want enhanced, right?
[14:51:59 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> yes
[14:52:05 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> could
[14:52:07 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So, if they also want the fatPanel interface on that page, they will then construct one of those, which will then construct a fresh pageEnhancer on the outside, displacing the old one
[14:52:17 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And then will also create a 3rd pageEnhancer for the interface in the iframe
[14:52:42 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> We need to make sure, basically, that there is no use of "fluid.pageEnhancer" from anywhere inside UIOptions code itself
[14:52:56 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Since this runs the risk of interfering with the enhancer made by the user
[14:53:00 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> As well as not working (tongue)
[14:53:12 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> i see ur point
[14:54:39 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon: so the first action is to remove the page enhancer from the static environment
[14:55:07 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> cindyli - this depends on whether we still want the end users to be able to use it that way, using fluid.pageEnhancer()
[14:55:16 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I imagine we still want this to work
[14:55:24 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> then figure out a way to collaborate uiOptions and pageEnhancer
[14:55:36 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> More specifically the first action is to remove pageEnhancer from UIOptions code itself, and particularly FatPanel
[14:55:53 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> ok
[14:56:08 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> i will try
[14:56:15 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> good job (smile)
[14:56:29 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> thanks, Bosmon (smile)
[14:57:08 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> cindyli: is there anything in FLUID-4295 that needs to be pushed to trunk?
[15:04:56 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> harriswong: if it works well with the new toc, yes, a pull request
[15:05:24 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> cindyli: ok. Anything you want me to help test on that branch?
[15:05:53 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> cindyli: also, i am not sure if the conflict i had was resolved correctly by me (i simply use the head code)
[15:07:26 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> harriswong: ic. probably easier to branch off the project repo master and re-integrate the new toc, rather than resolving the conflict
[15:08:57 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> cindyli: i see, would that mean we should wait for 4209 to get pushed into the trunk first then?
[15:12:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> So, umm, dudes
[15:12:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o, michelled, and I were just chatting
[15:13:04 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and I think we're missing a key point for !important generation
[15:13:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It may or may not be a showstopper
[15:13:17 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> uh oh
[15:13:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: (smile)
[15:13:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Let's say someone is using fss-text.css to style the text of their site
[15:14:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> now, we generate a version of fss-text.css with !important within it
[15:14:24 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and we have no dynamic loader for stylesheets
[15:14:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> meaning, we are going to ask users, at least for this release, to be sure to link in all the *-uio versions of the stylesheets
[15:15:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> So, if they were to have overridden some style from fss-text
[15:15:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> the -uio version of fss-text would most likely stomp on them
[15:15:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Of course, that's the point if a user has actually asked for some kind of change to the text styling
[15:16:13 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but if the stylesheets are there all the time, regardless of whether the user has requested a change, the -uio.css will always beat out the regular stylesheet
[15:16:28 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> bringing us back to where we were in 1.3 when we were shipping !important right in the default FSS stylesheets
[15:18:52 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> colinclark - is it feasible to make the two kinds of styling non-overlapping, by use of a namespace prefix on the classes?
[15:19:05 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It seems to me that the !important versions of the styles just shouldn't be named the same as the other versions
[15:20:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: yes, that's what we're exploring
[15:20:42 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> we'll simply need to add to our CSS generator
[15:20:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> to also generate the selector for each rule
[15:21:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> by scoping them to something like ".fl-pageEnhanced"
[15:21:08 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> yes, harriswong
[15:21:20 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> That sounds like a reasonable plan
[15:21:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I, guess, actually, you're making another point...
[15:21:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> which is that UIE thinks of itself as a user
[15:21:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but really, it's dealing with a whole other concept
[15:23:54 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Well, it's funny, after trying to port so many CSS concepts into IoC, to think about doing the reverse (tongue)
[15:24:06 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> the UIE action could be considered a kind of "demands blocks for CSS"....
[15:24:12 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> "MAKE THIS HAPPEN, COME WHAT MAY"
[15:25:24 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> (smile)
[15:26:49 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Of course it's slightly unfortunate that our implementation of this concept on the IoC side involves having the demands blocks "pretending to be the user"
[15:26:58 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But then we have some issues still to resolve on that side too
[15:29:12 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> The pending timebomb on the UIE side is that we have only ONE level of !important available to us.... when we run into a situation which requires us to beat what we do here, there'll be no alternative but launching fully into the business of automatic stylesheet generation
[15:29:53 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> jessm and colinclark, do you guys have time to do a chat?
[15:30:44 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> jhung: i'm trying to extricate myself from a call
[15:31:18 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> jessm, okay. I'll be up for a little while longer, so no rush.
[15:32:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> hi jhung
[15:32:57 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> i'm here for a little longer
[15:33:08 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> super hungry, so maybe i'll grab some chips while jessm extricates
[15:33:35 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> sounds good colinclark.
[15:42:00 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm thinking, at least for the non-theme files, that we may be able to ship with this as a bug
[15:42:12 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> in the case of text, for example, I think users may never actually encounter it
[15:51:03 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> aye aye aye
[15:51:07 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> i'm ready colinclark jhung
[15:51:36 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> okay jessm you guys start the call. My bandwidth is bad
[15:52:02 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: eating chips or are you back?
[15:54:04 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> jhung: calling anyway
[15:55:17 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> i'm here
[15:55:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: jhung