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[10:05:09 EST(-0500)] <jessm> boyan1: decapod meeting in Breeze – you able to come?
[10:05:56 EST(-0500)] <boyan1> jessm: yes, I will
[10:06:05 EST(-0500)] <boyan1> sorry, I thought it was in half an houe
[10:06:08 EST(-0500)] <boyan1> hour
[10:43:57 EST(-0500)] <boyan1> jessm, michelled: I am terribly tired (my day started about 10 hours ago), so I won't be staying for the stand-up and dev meetings
[10:43:57 EST(-0500)] <boyan1> hope that's not a problem since I just provided you with a status update in Breeze
[10:44:15 EST(-0500)] <michelled> no problem boyan1
[10:44:20 EST(-0500)] <jessm> boyan1: night night 
don't stay up!
[10:44:28 EST(-0500)] <michelled> I'll take notes at the dev meeting and send them to the list
[10:45:18 EST(-0500)] <boyan1> thanks, bye
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[10:50:26 EST(-0500)] <jessm> sveto_: are you going to be able to come to the dev mtg. today?
[10:54:07 EST(-0500)] <sveto_> jessm: yes, I'm currently home recuperating, it's after stand up, right?
[10:54:34 EST(-0500)] <jessm> sveto_: yes, after standup – oh no, recuperating – you must be feeling ill?
[10:54:58 EST(-0500)] <sveto_> jessm: yes, I actually caught a second cold within one month 
[10:55:08 EST(-0500)] <jessm> oh no!
[10:56:29 EST(-0500)] <sveto_> I'm going to be back at office on monday
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[12:06:23 EST(-0500)] <jamon> colinclark: ping
[12:18:15 EST(-0500)] <jamon> colinclark: looking for the engage browser roadmap, if you know the url would you mind posting it?
[12:18:35 EST(-0500)] <jamon> (or anyone else who knows?)
[12:20:04 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jamon: This is the Infusion browser support page: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Browser+Support
[12:20:18 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> For Engage, we haven't yet created a similar A-grade list for mobile browsers.
[12:20:48 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> The short of it is that we'll support WebKit-based browsers first, but there are so many flavours of WebKit at this point that this statement is somewhat meaningless.
[12:20:54 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jamon: Why do you ask?
[12:21:21 EST(-0500)] <jamon> colinclark: in a meeting with blackberry folks, jutta wanted to show them the roadmap for other browsers for engage
[12:21:29 EST(-0500)] <jamon> thanks 
[12:21:30 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Ah
[12:23:09 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jamon: Where is the meeting? Will it help if I join you?
[12:23:41 EST(-0500)] <jamon> colinclark: just about done
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[14:15:37 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> hey michelled
[14:15:40 EST(-0500)] <michelled> hi
[14:15:52 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> the king and i are just chatting
[14:15:57 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> "in real life"
[14:16:10 EST(-0500)] <michelled> how fancy
[14:16:31 EST(-0500)] <michelled>
[14:17:04 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> so justin_o is feeling the urge to write some unit tests
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[14:17:58 EST(-0500)] <michelled> that is a good urge to feel
[14:18:33 EST(-0500)] <colinclark>
[14:19:18 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> for his code inside kettle
[14:19:34 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> it occurred to me to just mention this to you
[14:19:50 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Since you'll have your mind in Kettle over the next little while
[14:19:58 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> This isn't something you need to do at this point
[14:19:59 EST(-0500)] <michelled> does he have a plan for how he'll write the tests?
[14:20:13 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> but I think there is a JIRA floating around for the need to have some kind of test harness for Kettle
[14:20:16 EST(-0500)] <michelled> I know Bosmon2 was puzzling over it a bit
[14:20:19 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> yeah
[14:20:27 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I don't know that any of us know how it will be done
[14:20:51 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> But I'm thinking you might end up with some insights by the end of your various Kettle-related missions
[14:21:26 EST(-0500)] <michelled> hopefully. I was just thinking how much easier my mission would be if we already had tests
[14:22:35 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> yeah
[14:22:39 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> i hear you
[14:23:33 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> michelled: ok, that's it. you can go back into your code cave
[14:23:39 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> just wanted to mention it before we forget
[14:25:44 EST(-0500)] <michelled> thanks
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[17:13:09 EST(-0500)] <jamon> colinclark: is there a 0.5 or 0.3 engage war kicking around i can deploy on the fluidengage.org demo? couch has been wonky there and i'm wondering if it is the 0.1 release causing the connection timeouts
[17:13:24 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jamon: If only 
[17:13:47 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jamon: You could build the current 0.3 snapshot and deploy that, but structurally it's still more 0.1 than 0.3, if you know what I mean.
[17:13:55 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> We're still well in the midst of creating it.
[17:14:03 EST(-0500)] <jamon> hmm, ok, i'll just keep an eye on it then, though the 0.3 on titan seems more stable
[17:14:15 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> interesting
[17:14:23 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> do you want me to cut an 0.3-SNAPSHOT build for you?
[17:14:37 EST(-0500)] <jamon> could be couch itself too, though it is pulled from debian's testing repository on fluidengage.org
[17:14:45 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ah, interesting
[17:14:51 EST(-0500)] <jamon> colinclark: if it isn't too much trouble, or i can grab it from the build server?
[17:15:12 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jamon: your choice. no reason you can't just grab the nightly, and then you know it's identical
[17:15:40 EST(-0500)] <jamon> i just want to figure out where the problem is, not apache or tomcat, has to be testing couch, erlang, or kettle at this point
[17:15:44 EST(-0500)] <jamon> ok, i'll poke at it colinclark, thanks
[17:15:51 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> cool
[17:15:57 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> let me know if i can help, jamon
[17:16:31 EST(-0500)] <jamon> so it's fine if http://fluidengage.org/engage/demo/index.html says 0.3 right?
[17:17:04 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jamon: hmm...
[17:17:11 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It should be 0.1, I think.
[17:17:18 EST(-0500)] <jamon> i can leave it for now and just restart couch if it hangs then
[17:17:24 EST(-0500)] <jamon> that's easier for the time being
[17:17:26 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Our goal with the main website is to have a stable, release version of the app to demonstrate
[17:17:36 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm fine if you want to stick 0.3 up there for a few days to test with
[17:17:57 EST(-0500)] <jamon> hmm, in that case, it wasn't up today for blackberry, i put the build demo up on the screen
[17:18:00 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> but I think the general idea is to ensure that someone can go and see a reliable, up to date release version of Our Stuff
[17:18:04 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> eek
[17:18:14 EST(-0500)] <jamon> that's what has me digging around
[17:18:29 EST(-0500)] <jamon> wasn't sure where to make a jira
[17:18:33 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> so strange
[17:18:41 EST(-0500)] <jamon> been solid for so long too
[17:18:42 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> you can pretty much file a jira anywhere for it
[17:18:46 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> that's so weird
[17:18:59 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> so it's been running for weeks, and then just died today?
[17:19:19 EST(-0500)] <jamon> yeah, i took a look, tomcat was throwing errors, one sec
[17:20:33 EST(-0500)] <jamon> 13:51:35 GMT-0500 (EST): XMLHttpRequest: [object Object]
[17:20:33 EST(-0500)] <jamon> 13:51:35 GMT-0500 (EST): Status: null
[17:20:34 EST(-0500)] <jamon> 13:51:35 GMT-0500 (EST): Error: JavaException: java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused
[17:22:04 EST(-0500)] <jamon> it may just be couch ran out of some buffer somewhere over a few weeks
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[17:25:54 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> wow!
[17:26:07 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> That's clearly the database having disappeared
[17:26:19 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Since the only XHR request we make in Engage is to Couch
[17:27:14 EST(-0500)] <jamon> yeah i figured, thing is couch was up and running, and nothing in the logs to show any problem
[17:27:44 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> weird
[17:28:04 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> it seems odd that this would have caused engage to die completely
[17:28:10 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> was it responding to requests at all?
[17:28:21 EST(-0500)] <jamon> oh yeah, just the nice shiny loading page
[17:28:34 EST(-0500)] <jamon> the spinner was positively mesmerizing
[17:31:13 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Ouch
[17:31:22 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> how nice
[17:31:44 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Given how raw and new Engage is, there is probably very little in the way of error handling going on
[17:31:58 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Client-side developers tend to be a bit lazy about errors and XHR
[17:32:05 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> and so that translates onto the server
[17:32:10 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> But the question is still, why?
[17:32:18 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jamon: I'm so glad you caught this. You rule!
[17:33:07 EST(-0500)] <jamon> having a serverside option to fully render a request would make it easy to use curl/wget/lwp-request to monitor uptime
[17:33:25 EST(-0500)] <jamon> but that's for another release
[17:33:30 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon2> It will come
[17:34:12 EST(-0500)] <jamon> in the meantime, i'll try writing something to just poll couch itself
[17:34:18 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jamon: Ok, I was just looking at the code
[17:34:43 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> The message you saw in the log is the error handler of the Browse server-side code
[17:35:06 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So, to point out the obvious, an HTTP request to Couch clearly failed for some reason
[17:35:48 EST(-0500)] <jamon> colinclark: i was toying with various python-spidermonkey releases, that would allow me to write some easy cli js wrapper with urllib (i don't know any other language to do it with)
[17:36:24 EST(-0500)] <jamon> but that seems like overkill for what may be a one off or very intermittent problem
[17:36:33 EST(-0500)] <colinclark>
[17:36:36 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> still, it sounds like fun
[17:36:54 EST(-0500)] <jamon> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-spidermonkey
[17:37:34 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> there are so many interesting javascript environments these days
[17:37:41 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> strangely, a lot of people are using JS on the command line
[17:38:07 EST(-0500)] <jamon> that i really don't get, so many more mature shell environments
[17:38:09 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I just can't wait until we get a stable V8 + apache module so we can switch of the JVM
[17:38:09 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> And be Faster Than Ruby!
[17:38:26 EST(-0500)] <jamon> hah, the RoR folks won't be happy when that happens
[17:39:03 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jamon: Looking at python-spidermonkey, I just realized that I have met the guy who first wrote it
[17:39:10 EST(-0500)] <jamon> zed shaw will undoubtedly post a rant
[17:39:11 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Atul Varma
[17:39:12 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Doesn't take much to be faster than Ruby....
[17:39:15 EST(-0500)] <jamon> colinclark: awesome
[17:39:18 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon2> A Crushed Snail would probably suffice
[17:39:23 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jamon: That'll be awesome. A Zed rant
[17:39:39 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon2: Ha!
[17:39:51 EST(-0500)] <jamon> hmm, zed pulled his rant offline, very interesting
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[17:41:05 EST(-0500)] <jamon> waybackmachine, lalala
[17:41:09 EST(-0500)] <colinclark>
[17:41:12 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> so, just to summarize
[17:41:21 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> 1. An XHR request failed
[17:41:21 EST(-0500)] <jamon> yes, i'm drifting
[17:41:29 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> 2. Couch was running when you last looked
[17:41:35 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jamon: is that right?
[17:41:53 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> so 3. somehow engage stopped being able to connect to couch?
[17:41:54 EST(-0500)] <jamon> multiple requests failed, all services were ostensibly up and responding
[17:42:02 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> totally weird
[17:42:41 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess it's just something we'll need to keep an eye on
[17:42:49 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon2: I assume no insights come to mind?
[17:52:13 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon2> I can't really think of anything
[17:52:24 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon2> No useful exception trace?
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[18:07:36 EST(-0500)] <jamon> Bosmon2: the couchdb log looks like everything was normal
[18:07:59 EST(-0500)] <jamon> without that tomcat error and infinte browser timeout, there'd be no way to even tell there was a problem
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