Page Comparison

[08:35:58 CST(-0600)] <jessm> hey everyone – are we already all QAing or do we need some organizing?
[08:36:37 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> jessm, i'm just getting settled in, but I was planning to start screen-reader testing the demos soon
[08:36:53 CST(-0600)] <jessm> cool
[08:37:05 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: do you have some ideas about getting peeps organized around testing?
[08:37:54 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> jessm, justin_o, colinclark: for screen-reader testing, are we going for maximum coverage, or is there a reader/browser combination we should be focusing on?
[08:38:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> anastasiac: Let's focus on FF 3.6 + NVDA
[08:38:30 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> thanks
[08:38:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think we'll broaden our coverage during QA testing for the 1.3 release itself
[08:39:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Do you think we should use the QA test plans as a guide for this?
[08:39:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Can the test plans easily be adapted for use with a screen reader?
[08:39:23 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: I think it might be helpful.. we can probably just go through the state tests i think
[08:39:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok
[08:40:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Shall I go ahead and merge Mike's fix into the branch, or do you think he's got more work to do there and I should wait for him?
[08:40:22 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i'm not sure.. i haven't talked to him about it yet..
[08:40:40 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> so maybe we can get started on testing the other ones first and come back to uploader afterwards
[08:40:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok, sounds good
[08:41:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, it would be great to have Jan have a look now, too
[08:41:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Does he hang out in the channel at all?
[08:41:17 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: yes.. it would be... i don't think he does
[08:41:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok
[08:41:29 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: Justin_o: should we just organize everyone on components here in the channel rather than the overhead of creating a testing page?
[08:41:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> That makes sense to me
[08:41:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Hopefully this is quick and simple testing
[08:41:57 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: agreed
[08:42:09 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: do you want to lead that?
[08:42:15 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: sure
[08:42:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> My goal is to have a list of bugs that we can prioritize for the 1.3 release work. Hopefully we won't find anything else that needs to be fixed before demo freeze.
[08:42:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> famous last words
[08:44:02 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> so we have progress, pager, inlineEdit (simple), reorder layout, reorderer grid, reorderer list, and uploader when it's ready
[08:44:39 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i'm guessing we don't need to test the reorderers in a screen reader... i think we're still saying it is ready only for keyboard a11y testing
[08:44:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: That's right
[08:45:14 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> okay.. so i think we should start by splitting up the screen reader testing... any volunteers
[08:45:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I wouldn't be surprised if Bosmon has some improvements before too long--but not in time for freeze
[08:45:25 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: okay..
[08:45:46 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, I can do some NVDA testing
[08:46:16 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: great.. which components have you tried so far.. it might be good to try something different if you can
[08:46:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: I have a quick question, slightly unrelated, while you're corralling volunteers... hopefully I'm not distracting you
[08:46:39 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: okay
[08:46:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I was thinking about the Uploader demo, and how confusing it is for people to have it fatally broken
[08:46:47 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> I tested uploader, so I could try pager, or progress...
[08:46:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> as jessm pointed out yesterday afternoon
[08:47:22 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: okay.. great.. you're choice either is good
[08:47:40 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> I haven't actually seen the pager demo in a while, so I'll start with that
[08:47:44 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: hmm.. that's a good point.. so are you thinking of merging your branch into trunk now?
[08:47:58 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks
[08:48:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> golam: Are there any more code changes that need to go in for Pager, or is it ready for anastasiac to test?
[08:48:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: I wasn't thinking of merging with trunk yet
[08:49:24 CST(-0600)] <golam> colinclark: few minutes
[08:49:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> k
[08:49:29 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> justin_o for sure
[08:49:38 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: okay.. i see yep that makes sense
[08:49:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi_: Do you want to try Uploader?
[08:49:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's shaping up nicely, I hope
[08:49:50 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> totes
[08:49:53 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> ill update
[08:50:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi_: There's a special branch
[08:50:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I sent an email to the list last night with next steps
[08:50:12 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> incubator?
[08:50:15 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> okay will check
[08:50:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Just so everyone knows, the branch we need to test on-and that we'll freeze for Jan-is here:
[08:50:52 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> colinclark, Jan's in the office now, so you could ping him about having a look at the demos
[08:50:53 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: did you want her to wait till after you incorporate mike's patch?
[08:51:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> https://source.fluidproject.org/svn/incubator/aegis-demo-nov-2010/
[08:51:10 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> if so maybe heidi_ can start on progress and then move to uploader after
[08:51:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> anastasiac: I think jessm's already on it
[08:51:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: oh yes, I forgot!
[08:51:26 CST(-0600)] <jessm> i'm happy to test – i don't have NVDA
[08:51:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi_: That makes tons of sense--Progress is quick, and then Uploader once Mike merges his last fix into the branch. Seem cool?
[08:52:03 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> cool
[08:52:23 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: would you mind testing the reorderers
[08:52:28 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> golam, let me know when the pager work is ready, and i'll have a go at it with NVDA
[08:52:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: So the one caveat with Uploader demo is that I will have to load the template via AJAX... meaning it will be yet another demo that won't work from the local file system in FF
[08:52:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> golam: And let me know if you want me to review and commit
[08:52:53 CST(-0600)] <golam> Justin_o:sould I just check in
[08:52:58 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark:
[08:52:59 CST(-0600)] <golam> anastasiac: I will
[08:53:26 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i don't suppose there is any way around that
[08:53:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: As it stands, I believe we have UI Options, Pager, and Uploader that won't work with local AJAX in FF. Pager can be fixed, though you had some thoughts on why that might not be ideal.
[08:54:01 CST(-0600)] <golam> Justin_o, colinclark: ok I will create a patch and added to the jira FLUID-3828
[08:54:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Not that I can think of. There's basically two approaches: AJAX or cut and paste
[08:54:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Think of the Puppies!
[08:55:42 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: hmm.. i suppose for uploader you could have a link there to the template so that if run it locally and it doesn't work you can go straight to the template
[08:55:48 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> does that seem reasonable at all?
[08:56:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ah, interesting
[08:56:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> a redirect might work, too
[08:56:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> crazy idea, Justin_o
[08:56:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> let me take a quick look at it
[08:56:32 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: okay
[08:56:54 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: sure!
[08:57:15 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> so for the testing we still need someone to test the inlineEdit which i guess i can do, but would be great if someone who didn't work on it could give it a try
[08:58:13 CST(-0600)] <heidi__> justin i can add to my list.
[08:59:29 CST(-0600)] <golam> anastasiac, colinclark: here is the patch for pager http://issues.fluidproject.org/secure/attachment/11368/FLUID-3828.v7.patch
[08:59:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks, golam, I'll take a look
[08:59:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, remind me again, golam--these fixes are going straight into the branch, not into trunk right now, right?
[09:00:10 CST(-0600)] <golam> colinclark: yes
[09:00:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok, good to knw
[09:01:35 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> heidi__: if you don't mind and you have time... colinclark how long before uploader will be ready to test do you think?
[09:01:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Well, we have two options
[09:02:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We can wait for mlam and see if he wants to commit his changes to the branch himself
[09:02:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Or I can go ahead and do it and we'll be ready immediately
[09:02:22 CST(-0600)] <golam> anastasiac: Here is the test document which does not contain the tests with tooltip http://issues.fluidproject.org/secure/attachment/11360/FLUID-3828-AND-3829-Test-Results.xls
[09:02:36 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> golam, thanks
[09:04:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> golam: When I run the Pager unit tests, one fails
[09:04:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Is that expected?
[09:04:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> "Check to see if aria-describedby was added to the current page once page loads" fails with an error saying the tooltip isn't available
[09:05:03 CST(-0600)] <golam> colinclark: hmm let me check
[09:05:04 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: is the jquery.ui.tooltip.js file added to the test html
[09:05:10 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> golam: ^
[09:05:46 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> when i created my patch yesterday the tests didn't use the tooltip at all for some reason and didn't have any tooltip.js files added so i didn't bother updating them
[09:06:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> hey mlam
[09:06:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> how's it going?
[09:06:12 CST(-0600)] <mlam> hey colinclark, not too bad, how are you doing ?
[09:06:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> late night for you last night
[09:06:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> okay
[09:06:19 CST(-0600)] <mlam> wasn't too bad
[09:06:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, your last fix...
[09:06:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> is it ready to go, then?
[09:06:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> if so, do you want to merge it into the aegis-demo-nov-2010 branch?
[09:06:46 CST(-0600)] <mlam> Yes, I feel pretty good about it.
[09:06:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it's only one revision, so it'll be an easy merge
[09:06:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: Wicked!
[09:07:00 CST(-0600)] <mlam> is the aegis-demo branch in the incubator?
[09:07:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it is indeed
[09:07:07 CST(-0600)] <mlam> awesome.
[09:07:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> https://source.fluidproject.org/svn/incubator/aegis-demo-nov-2010/
[09:07:16 CST(-0600)] <mlam> i'll just apply my patch and hopefully that'll do it
[09:07:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: If you can do it, merging is better
[09:07:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> svn does weirdly keep some log of history now
[09:07:48 CST(-0600)] <mlam> oh ok
[09:08:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Seriously, it should be as easy as 1) checking out a clean branch 2) running svn merge -r 10277:HEAD https://source.fluidproject.org/svn/incubator/uploader/FLUID-3722 .
[09:08:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> try a --dry-run first just in case
[09:08:47 CST(-0600)] <mlam> ok, cool
[09:10:25 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: thanks for helping with the inlineEdit screen reader testing... i think we decided that we are going to focus on FF 3.6 and NVDA for this quick round of QA for the demos
[09:10:37 CST(-0600)] <jhung> sure
[09:11:06 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> you should be able to just use the state tests from the test plan to walk through the component
[09:11:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> hey Justin_o, can you try your new everyone keyword, just to see if my client is working?
[09:12:13 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> fluid-everyone: testing?
[09:12:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> works for me
[09:12:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I sent instructions on how to set up Colloquy to do it
[09:12:26 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> Works for me too.
[09:12:40 CST(-0600)] <jessm> works for me and sure beats typing it all in
[09:12:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark>
[09:13:09 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> that's great
[09:13:42 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> cool - I had started listening for just "everyone" but this is more helpful
[09:17:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> golam: Any word on the tests?
[09:18:11 CST(-0600)] <golam> colinclark: look at it right now.. will get back to you soon
[09:18:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> sure, no problem
[09:19:28 CST(-0600)] <golam> colinclark: worked..I am creating the patch again
[09:19:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok
[09:21:09 CST(-0600)] <Jan_> (joining but not actively watching - please type my name if you need my attention)
[09:21:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Jan_: hey dude, welcome
[09:22:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We're just in the midst of a serious mini-QA sprint for your demo branch
[09:22:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Then we'll freeze it up
[09:22:46 CST(-0600)] <Jan_> cool - URIs?
[09:23:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Jan_: I sent an email to fluid-work last night with all the URLs... I'll forward it to you so you have them handy
[09:23:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> should have cc'ed you specifically
[09:23:49 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> colinclark: Justin_o: jessm: i'm now working on atutor. Ping me if any more work you want from me for example, adjust the builder patch or builder re-deployment. is that ok?
[09:24:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cindyli: Sure, no problem. Once we finish this demo freeze, we'll probably need your help to finish up the Builder, but that can wait for a bit.
[09:24:53 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> colinclark: sure
[09:25:12 CST(-0600)] <golam> colinclark: http://issues.fluidproject.org/secure/attachment/11369/FLUID-3828.v7.patch for pager and this time I have tested the testcases
[09:31:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> golam: Just testing it now, and will commit shortly
[09:31:55 CST(-0600)] <golam> colinclark: I am going to create another patch right now, just changed the message for one of the test case
[09:32:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> golam: Just the message?
[09:34:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> golam: I'm not sure if there is anything special I need to do to get this working
[09:34:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Wh
[09:34:09 CST(-0600)] <heidi> colinclark shall i test uploader now
[09:34:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> When I test with NVDA, I can't hear the tooltips in the pager bar at all
[09:34:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi: Check in with mlam, and see if he's made his commit yet
[09:34:33 CST(-0600)] <heidi> werd up
[09:34:39 CST(-0600)] <mlam> colinclark: heidi: still merging..
[09:35:07 CST(-0600)] <jhung> justin_o, colinclark: NVDA is saying "Edit autocomplete. Escape to cancel..." I suspect we don't have control over that.
[09:35:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: In which demo?
[09:35:47 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: simple inline edit with NVDA on Windows FF 3.6
[09:35:54 CST(-0600)] <golam> colinclark: If you run the test then you will see the last testcase message says "aria-describedby was added to the current page anchor" but we have removed the anchor
[09:36:00 CST(-0600)] <heidi> some issues with nvda and progress... doesn't tell me progress except start/finish, but golam's going to test his
[09:39:16 CST(-0600)] <jhung> justin_o, colinclark: when you click on the Title simpleInlineEdit box, the text "Untitled"does not appear in Edit mode. Is this intentional?
[09:40:40 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> heidi: oh, heidi, let me know if you need help to test ur builder patch in ie
[09:41:11 CST(-0600)] <heidi> cindyli great ill send it to you soon !
[09:41:12 CST(-0600)] <golam> colinclark: http://issues.fluidproject.org/secure/attachment/11370/FLUID-3828.v8.patch this will work
[09:41:31 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> heidi: okok
[09:41:56 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi: would you like to go over the progress issues
[09:42:15 CST(-0600)] <heidi> yes comin over
[09:42:21 CST(-0600)] <golam> cool
[09:49:36 CST(-0600)] <golam> colinclark: with NVDA+Firefox3.6.12+XP+BrowseMode(Insert+spacebar) you should hear the tooltip
[10:02:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> One of the things I'd love to learn from real users is if they will naturally switch modes regularly to get the best out of Pager
[10:03:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> In Browse Mode, it's really awesome
[10:03:27 CST(-0600)] <heidi> golam under my nvda prefs, under object presentation, i have beeps on for progress bars
[10:03:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The page bar works great, and the table header links read "Select to sort," which is really helpful
[10:03:32 CST(-0600)] <heidi> jon does too
[10:03:47 CST(-0600)] <heidi> but no beeps! i wonder why
[10:04:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> golam: Did we make a conscious decision not to wrap Pager in an application role?
[10:04:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> hey mlam, how's the merging going?
[10:05:23 CST(-0600)] <mlam> just about to commit
[10:05:24 CST(-0600)] <heidi> golam jon d/l'ed the most recent nvda dev version and it beeps
[10:06:30 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi: let me come over or you can bring your laptop here an we can compare between our NVDA settings
[10:06:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi: Progress seems to work really nicely in my copy of NVDA 2010.2b2
[10:07:01 CST(-0600)] <heidi> colin does it beep
[10:07:28 CST(-0600)] <heidi> i'm d/ling the latest dev snapshot
[10:07:51 CST(-0600)] <heidi> jan_ what version of nvda do you use
[10:08:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi: Yes, it beeps
[10:08:55 CST(-0600)] <golam> colinclark: discussing with justin, not sure I understand "wrap pager in application role"
[10:09:00 CST(-0600)] <heidi> i think it should also add the reset demo link to finished feedback
[10:09:18 CST(-0600)] <golam> colinclark: let me get back to you on this
[10:09:26 CST(-0600)] <jhung> justin_o: I tested the Simple Inline Edit Demo using NVDA on FF3.6. Only 2 issues I came across.
[10:09:41 CST(-0600)] <mlam> colinclark: ok, finally committed
[10:09:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: Nice
[10:09:45 CST(-0600)] <jhung> 1. The text "Untitled" does not appear in the edit box when you edit.
[10:09:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Did you have any trouble with it, mlam?
[10:10:22 CST(-0600)] <jhung> 2. NVDA reads out "Edit Auto Complete" before reading the tooltip instructions and editable text when entering edit mode.
[10:10:29 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> golam, colinclark: I don't think we did make a conscious decision about not putting an application role on
[10:10:32 CST(-0600)] <mlam> human troubles, yes
[10:10:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: lo
[10:10:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> lol
[10:10:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's good practice
[10:10:56 CST(-0600)] <mlam> yah, for sure!
[10:10:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: I am not an expert here...
[10:11:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but my sense is that Pager actually works best in Browse Mode
[10:11:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> By putting an application role around it, the AT will switch modes automatically
[10:11:38 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: for 1) that's because i switched untitled to be the default invitation text for that inlineEdit field
[10:11:46 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> rather than the "Click here to edit"
[10:11:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I just don't know what side effects this will have--will a user be somehow more limited in how they interact with the table, for example?
[10:12:00 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi: right the aria-relevant is set to text and that's why we don't hear "Restart demo" which is a link. There was a reason why we decided to set aria-relevant to text and I think it saying old messages in one of the older Firefox. For some reason if we change aria-relevant to all then we are hearing "Restart demo" in the latest firefox
[10:12:16 CST(-0600)] <heidi> golam it's beeping with latest dev snapshot yay
[10:12:26 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi: nice
[10:12:37 CST(-0600)] <heidi> we just have to make sure jan has one that beeps
[10:13:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Okay, fluid-everyone, heidi's just brought up a really good point. When you're testing with NVDA, please make sure you're running version 2010.2b2 or higher.
[10:13:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi: Jan_ has demoed this version of Progress in the past, so I'm sure he's fine. Last I heard, he was running 2b2
[10:13:42 CST(-0600)] <heidi> http://www.nvda-project.org/wiki/Snapshots
[10:13:48 CST(-0600)] <heidi> cool
[10:14:04 CST(-0600)] <Jan_> yep
[10:14:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> wicked
[10:14:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: So I'm trying to think about how we can organize a list of potential issues
[10:14:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I haven't heard any show stoppers yet, but there are some interesting observations
[10:14:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I can try to make note of them here to start
[10:15:01 CST(-0600)] <heidi> mlam uploader ready ?
[10:15:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> 1. heidi suggested that in Progress, we may want to include the "Restart demo" link as part of the live region, which will enable it to be read to the user automatically.
[10:15:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> 2. I'm bringing up the point that Pager works better in Browse Mode, so it may benefit from having an application role, causing the AT to switch modes automatically. I'm just not sure what other trade-offs will result from a change like that.
[10:15:44 CST(-0600)] <mlam> heidi: it's ready
[10:15:52 CST(-0600)] <heidi> cool testin'
[10:16:00 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark, mlam: I have just committed the test files to 3722 branch. rev 10279
[10:16:29 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: very helpful – just catching up above now...
[10:17:04 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi, colinclark: I will create the patch for progress and ping you guys soon
[10:17:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> harriswong: thanks!
[10:17:19 CST(-0600)] <mlam> colinclark: should i bother merging harriswong's tests into the aegis branch?
[10:17:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: Nope
[10:17:26 CST(-0600)] <mlam> ok
[10:17:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I want to slow down the commits to the aegis branch
[10:17:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> the branch is slushy now, right Justin_o?
[10:18:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> In fact, frozen until we confirm any bugs found should actually be fixed
[10:18:47 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: sounds right
[10:19:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Okay, so golam's latest patch is now in the branch. Pager is ready for testing, Justin_o
[10:19:33 CST(-0600)] <heidi> golam colinclark yeah it seems to focus on the disabled submit button after upload, so you don't really know that "refresh demo" link is there
[10:20:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, just so I'm clear, we're just identifying bugs right now. We're not fixing them until we determine priority, right Justin_o?
[10:20:34 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> colinclark, I have a list of "interesting observations" for pager - likely no showstoppers. Justin_o suggested I file JIRAs so we don't forget about them, but I can summarize them here, if that's helpful
[10:20:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> anastasiac: Definitely JIRAs, but a summary here will be great
[10:21:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: Are you willing to be the "official registry" of bugs we need to mull over?
[10:21:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark>
[10:21:36 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> 1) kbd-a11y: once a page link is activated, focus is lost, and tabbing starts at page one again (minor inconvenience, and a known issue, I understand)
[10:22:03 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> 2) sortable columns: There's no indication that a column might already be used for sorting
[10:22:16 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> 2) sortable columns: there's no indication of ascending vs descending
[10:22:30 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> 2b) anastasia needs to learn to count
[10:22:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I actually think #1 isn't such a minor inconvenience. I believe it's due to a bug in the event handler for those page links. Notice what happens to the URL when you activate a link?
[10:23:03 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark, mlam: let me know if you need more testcases for the uploader. I just talked to Justin_o and i am going to start testing with NVDA now.
[10:23:16 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> 4) sortable columns: once you select a column header to sort, there's no feedback that sort has happened. the voice just reads the page again
[10:24:03 CST(-0600)] <mlam> thanks harris
[10:24:10 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> 5) items per page: once you choose a new page count, there's no direct feedback that the change has occured, it just reads the page again. In our demo, that involves reading the summary, which tells you, but that's kind of a coincidence
[10:24:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> #5: Why do you think it is a coincidence, anastasiac?
[10:25:03 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> 6) when focus lands on the page number for the current page, there's no audio description of the first and last name as there is for the other pages. sighted users don't need it, but SR users might find it helpful
[10:25:22 CST(-0600)] <jessm> fluid-everyone send me yer bugs!
[10:25:44 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> colinclark, regarding #5: maybe it's not, but if an implementor chooses different text, something different would be said - unless that text is a built-in part of the pager that's sure to be there
[10:26:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> anastasiac: Which text do you mean?
[10:27:02 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> "Viewing page 1. Showing records x - y of z
[10:27:17 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> oh! stand-up time...
[10:27:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> anastasiac: That part is indeed part of the Pager. It's configurable, as you can imagine, but it's a standard feature of the Pager.
[10:28:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The interesting question is if this text is being read because it's at the top of the page?
[10:28:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> In other words, if this Pager were embedded into a larger page, would the whole page be re-read
[10:28:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I suspect yes, but don't fully know
[10:29:11 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> colinclark, that's kind of what I was wondering - was it being read because it's the description of the pager, or because it's the first thing on the page? I'll inject something else in there, and play around with it
[10:29:49 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark, anastasiac: I suspect that on resorting there is some rendering going on which is probably causing that portion to be rerendered
[10:30:22 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> although the text itself is the same message after a sort operation
[10:45:30 CST(-0600)] <jessm> fluid-everyone can you enumerate your bugs with #s like anastasiac and colinclark have? that way when i come back from errand-from-hell i can track them down...
[10:49:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: you got it
[10:50:03 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: who are you still waiting to hear back from?
[10:50:45 CST(-0600)] <jhung> justin_o: what jira should I submit my patch to? Can't seem to find an appropriate issue
[10:50:50 CST(-0600)] <jhung> for simple inline edit.
[10:50:57 CST(-0600)] <jessm> i've got a few from colinclark, a heidi progress and a pager app role and a bunch from anastasiac
[10:51:56 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: maybe file a new one for that, and mention it hear.. jessm is making a list of them all
[10:52:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> sounds like jhung has a new one, jessm?
[10:53:05 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark, jessm: yes. "Autocomplete" is being read by NVDA for Inline Edit.
[10:53:18 CST(-0600)] <jhung> I have a patch that will fix that. I'll create a new Jira and post a link here.
[10:53:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cool
[10:53:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> just out of curiosity, what's the fix, jhung?
[10:54:57 CST(-0600)] <jhung> adding the attribute autocomplete and setting it to "off" to the edit field. The absence of the attribute causes NVDA to say "Edit autocomplete"
[10:55:13 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm: 7) in uploader, focus styling on the "add more" button doesn't go away after adding files (mlam 's working on it)
[10:55:25 CST(-0600)] <heidi> uploader bug: you need flash
[10:56:29 CST(-0600)] <heidi> ^colinclark
[10:56:32 CST(-0600)] <heidi> making jira
[11:00:23 CST(-0600)] <heidi> justin_o, colinclark : http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3846
[11:00:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi: sorry?
[11:00:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ah
[11:00:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> shoot
[11:01:10 CST(-0600)] <heidi> jan has flash i hope?
[11:01:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm sure he does
[11:01:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Anyway, it's part of a larger issue, so I'm not keen to fix it in a one-off way
[11:02:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The larger issue being a tiered system for graceful degradation
[11:02:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Starting with HTML 5 if the browser can handle it
[11:02:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Trying for Flash if necessary
[11:02:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and ultimately falling back to the old old solution in absence of both
[11:02:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Hey Jan_, do you have Flash 10 installed on your laptop?
[11:03:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks for finding this one, heidi. It's a pretty funny bug.
[11:03:26 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark, jessm, justin_o: new issue and patch for Inline Edit NVDA bug: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3845
[11:03:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: What does this patch actually do?
[11:04:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> What is the autocomplete attribute?
[11:04:20 CST(-0600)] <heidi> colinclark should uploader work in ie yet? (flash version)
[11:04:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi: No, see above
[11:04:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We don't yet have a sensible algorithm for degrading gracefully to these various tiers
[11:05:56 CST(-0600)] <heidi> k
[11:06:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> For the 1.3 release, we'll get that all sorted out
[11:06:13 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: autocomplete would normally pop up an auto complete list as the user types.
[11:07:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: I'm still confused. I can't see any reference to an autocomplete attribute in the HTML 4 spec. Is it something special?
[11:07:42 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: possibly. I'm looking into that now. Either way, NVDA was reading it aloud even when it wasn't specified in the markup.
[11:08:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: But doesn't it seem problematic to be sticking invalid attributes in the markup?
[11:08:48 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: yes. If indeed autocomplete is not in the spec.
[11:09:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It is indeed not in the spec
[11:09:21 CST(-0600)] <jhung> In that case it would be an issue with NVDA.
[11:09:39 CST(-0600)] <jhung> It shouldn't be reading absent attributes in the first place.
[11:09:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It is part of the HTML 5 spec
[11:09:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And your syntax is correct
[11:09:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but I just wonder why we need to do this
[11:09:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> What doctype does the demo have?
[11:10:54 CST(-0600)] <jhung> xhtml1-transitional.dtd
[11:11:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> hmm
[11:13:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Yeah, autocomplete is also not part of the XHTML spec, as you might imagine (since it is essentially the same as HTML 4)
[11:13:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: How did you determine this as a fix?
[11:14:12 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: I tested various other websites that used text fields and discovered the ones with autocomplete="off" did not announce anything with NVDA.
[11:14:16 CST(-0600)] <jessm> k, colinclark Justin_o – just sent a file with the bugs listed – i'll be back as soon as i can!
[11:14:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: very, very odd
[11:14:32 CST(-0600)] <heidi> mlam i think "add more" should say "add more button" w/ screen reader it still says 'browse button'
[11:14:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I like that this fixes the issue...
[11:14:56 CST(-0600)] <mlam> heidi: it's an html 5 issue
[11:15:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi: So far, we can't relabel that button at all
[11:15:18 CST(-0600)] <heidi> ok
[11:15:22 CST(-0600)] <heidi> hmm.
[11:15:48 CST(-0600)] <mlam> the Browse files "button" is just styling that sits below the actual html5 input element. so the browser's default text for the input is always read
[11:16:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and the browser appears to give us no ability to change the text of the input element
[11:16:28 CST(-0600)] <heidi> there's no feedback when switching between uploaders
[11:16:51 CST(-0600)] <heidi> mlam ah, i see
[11:20:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi: Can you elaborate on "no feedback?"
[11:20:56 CST(-0600)] <heidi> colinclark it doesn't say anything when i use the switch links
[11:21:13 CST(-0600)] <heidi> mlam it also says file queue empty when the queue holds uploaded files. sort of confusing
[11:21:50 CST(-0600)] <mlam> the file queue message is to indicate how many files are in line to be uploaded. it doesn't account for files already uploaded
[11:22:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: I'd call that one a bug for sure
[11:23:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi: Can you make sure you're keeping an enumerated list of the issues you're finding, so that jessm_away can help us track them?
[11:23:34 CST(-0600)] <golam> Justin_o, heidi, colinclark, jessm_away: http://issues.fluidproject.org/secure/attachment/11372/FLUID-3751.v7.patch had to reopen FLUID-3751 to update progress demo. I have updated the aria-relevant attribute to have values "additions text" instead of "text". Now it will say everything inside the live region.
[11:23:39 CST(-0600)] <heidi> colinclark yep making list
[11:23:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> wicked, thanks
[11:24:22 CST(-0600)] <mlam> colinclark: ok
[11:24:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: Not saying we have to fix it for Jan's demo, but it should definitely be on our list
[11:24:52 CST(-0600)] <mlam> gotcha
[11:25:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> okay, i'm going to hop on the bike and head into the office
[11:25:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> see you shortly
[11:31:35 CST(-0600)] <heidi> golam : awesome ill check it out
[11:58:50 CST(-0600)] <athena> anyone know how to make a select menu actually show an item as preselected on an iphone?
[11:59:11 CST(-0600)] <athena> our current JSP's select menu insists on showing up with nothing selected to start with,and i don't quite understand why
[12:02:24 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, colinclark, jessm: my list of issues again, this time with JIRA numbers:
[12:02:26 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> 1) FLUID-3847 kbd-a11y: once a page link is activated, focus is lost, and tabbing starts at page one again (minor inconvenience, and a known issue, I understand)
[12:02:26 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> 2) FLUID-3848 sortable columns: There's no indication that a column might already be used for sorting
[12:02:26 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> 3) FLUID-3849 sortable columns: there's no indication of ascending vs descending
[12:02:27 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> 4) FLUID-3850 sortable columns: once you select a column header to sort, there's no feedback that sort has happened. the voice just reads the page again
[12:02:27 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> 6) FLUID-3829 when focus lands on the page number for the current page, there's no audio description of the first and last name as there is for the other pages. sighted users don't need it, but SR users might find it helpful
[12:03:16 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, you worked on our iPhone Engage app - any suggestions for athena? or heidi, maybe?
[12:17:52 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: i think i misssed something
[12:17:56 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> when was that from
[12:18:25 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: i read over your bug list that you sent me, did you want to chat now about it
[12:20:08 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, 12:59, just above my list of JIRAs
[12:20:56 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: sure
[12:22:20 CST(-0600)] <jessm> anastasiac: thanks!
[12:22:43 CST(-0600)] <jessm> athena: we're in the weeds a bit so don't be sad if you don't get an answer
[12:22:51 CST(-0600)] <athena> it's ok
[12:23:00 CST(-0600)] <jessm> you'll get one – it just might not be speedy
[12:23:07 CST(-0600)] <athena> oh, no worries!
[12:23:15 CST(-0600)] <athena> it's not critically urgent
[12:23:23 CST(-0600)] <athena> and who knows, perhaps it's something strange i did
[12:26:48 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: i'm ready when you are – just organizing the list a bit to help with prioritizing
[12:27:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> athena: I'm not sure I have a clue
[12:27:56 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> athena: i don't think we used a select menu for engage
[12:28:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I mean, it's just HTML, so it should just be the usual way
[12:28:06 CST(-0600)] <athena> ok
[12:28:08 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah
[12:28:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> strange
[12:28:16 CST(-0600)] <athena> i'll take another look at my code and see if anything looks off
[12:28:18 CST(-0600)] <athena> kinda weird though
[12:28:28 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: when you have that sorted out, could you share it here and we can chat about it?
[12:28:41 CST(-0600)] <jessm> sure
[12:29:19 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi: mlam: did you create a jira for the file queue empty when the queue holds uploaded files issue?
[12:29:50 CST(-0600)] <jessm> golam: what needs to happen with your patch to FLUID-3751?
[12:31:21 CST(-0600)] <golam> jessm: for the demo, I have added new values "additions text " for aria-relevant
[12:31:58 CST(-0600)] <golam> jessm: needs to be committed after code review
[12:32:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> golam: Could explain what that means in layperson's terms?
[12:32:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> What does it mean for the user experience of Progress??
[12:32:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> oops, extra question mark
[12:33:18 CST(-0600)] <mlam> jessm: I'll create one now
[12:35:12 CST(-0600)] <golam> colinclark, jessm: we added the new options so any updates within the live region will be announced
[12:36:23 CST(-0600)] <heidi> mlam is there (or should there be) a jira for feedback when switching between uploader views ? (using top link)
[12:36:50 CST(-0600)] <golam> colinclark, jessm: Used to only the text update was announcing because the option for live region was set to announce only when there was any text update
[12:37:20 CST(-0600)] <mlam> heidi: what's the issue with the uploader views?
[12:37:35 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: golam's FLUID-3751 is basically fix for that first issue from heidi that you had on your list
[12:37:58 CST(-0600)] <heidi> mlam just when you click that top link it doesn't give any feedback about what happened. think it should?
[12:38:45 CST(-0600)] <mlam> ohh, i would imagine so. colinclark: what do you think about what heidi just mentioned above?
[12:39:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam, heidi: Indeed it should
[12:39:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We have to decide if we want to fix it now or for the release
[12:39:10 CST(-0600)] <mlam> ok, heidi, i'll create another jira for that
[12:39:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> But there should definitely be a JIRA
[12:39:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks, mlam
[12:39:17 CST(-0600)] <heidi> cool thanks mlam
[12:39:18 CST(-0600)] <mlam> np
[12:43:26 CST(-0600)] <mlam> jessm: Created 2 new JIRAs for the issues we've mentioned about the uploader (FLUID-3851, FLUID-3852)
[12:45:49 CST(-0600)] <jessm> ok fluid-everyone here's the bug list by component
[12:46:21 CST(-0600)] <jessm> progress had FLUID-3751, but if i understand correctly that is fixed and is the same thing as heidi's mention that it should return to restart after completing
[12:46:43 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: there's a patch but hasn't been applied yet
[12:46:48 CST(-0600)] <jessm> inline-edit has and "autocomplete" being read by NVDA – jhung isn't here – is this one fixed?
[12:47:02 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: ok, got it
[12:47:18 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: also has a patch that hasn't been applied, i think jhung is doing more testing
[12:47:20 CST(-0600)] <heidi> jhung in process of investigating jessm
[12:47:32 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: heidi do you know the JIRA #?
[12:48:04 CST(-0600)] <jessm> uploader has 3 issues: FLUID-3846, 3851, 3852
[12:48:40 CST(-0600)] <jessm> they are basically flash, no feedback when switching modes, and the file queue shows uploaded files but says empty
[12:50:25 CST(-0600)] <jhung> jessm: here's the Jira to the NVDA autocomplete issue: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3845 I'm doing a little more investigation.
[12:50:32 CST(-0600)] <jessm> pager issues are: 3847, 3848, 3849, 3850, 3829, and that it works better in browse mode and might need an application role to switch automatically
[12:50:47 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: does this browse mode application role issue for pager have a JIRA #?
[12:51:07 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jhung: thanks
[12:52:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: Ah, good question
[12:52:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: I'll do that now
[12:52:47 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: thanks
[12:52:55 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: was that a helpful way to enumerate the bugs?
[12:53:49 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: yep thanks
[12:54:16 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> so i'm not sure which of those need to actually make it into the demos... i think the progress one should go in
[12:54:31 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> fluid-everyone: anyone else have thoughts
[12:55:26 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: the autocomplete is not being announced in JAWS.
[12:56:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: So it seems pretty likely it's a bug in NVDA that cropped up after version 2010.1?
[12:56:38 CST(-0600)] <jhung> I will need to check v2010.1 to confirm, but it's likely.
[12:58:11 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: okay... so the other one that i think may be useful to investigate is the pager application role thing that colin brought up
[12:58:25 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark, mlam: any of those uploader jiras seem necessary for the demos
[12:58:54 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi: what does FLUID-3846 mean?
[12:59:34 CST(-0600)] <heidi> jessm it means if you don't have flash installed, you get the degraded non-js version of uploader
[12:59:52 CST(-0600)] <jessm> in all browsers?
[12:59:58 CST(-0600)] <heidi> jessm i think so
[13:00:05 CST(-0600)] <heidi> it checks if you have flash
[13:00:12 CST(-0600)] <heidi> leftover from when uploader was flash
[13:00:45 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi: can you put that detail in the jira just to make sure we have clarity about what it means? just a bit more clear detail in the jira?
[13:00:54 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> mlam, colinclark: i noticed the uploader has wrap enabled, i can use the down-key to go through the uploader list infinitely, is that intended?
[13:01:08 CST(-0600)] <heidi> jessm sure
[13:01:14 CST(-0600)] <jessm> thx muchly
[13:01:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: Here's my bug for Pager and the application role: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3853
[13:02:48 CST(-0600)] <mlam> harriswong: I'm not sure what the intentions of that were. colinclark?
[13:04:19 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> mlam, colinclark: i think the layoutReorderer implemented the "nowrap" option in; not sure if it should be added to the uploader as well
[13:04:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I have a general suggestion for when we're writing JIRAs. We need to write to an audience: not ourselves, but our users. So write in a way that can be understandable to someone who might be using Infusion themselves and encountering a problem. They need to know: "is this the same thing I'm seeing? Does Fluid already know about it?" So the JIRA has to answer some practical questions: What is the bug? When does it occur? Why is it a bug? How do I reprod
[13:05:32 CST(-0600)] <jessm> ok, so to round up, golam has patched the progress bug 3751 and needs a review
[13:05:52 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: that's great advice
[13:05:56 CST(-0600)] <golam> jessm: sounds good
[13:05:58 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jon, who keeps coming and going is working on inline-edit autocomplete FLUID-3845
[13:06:36 CST(-0600)] <jessm> and colinclark needs to take a look at 3846, 3851, and 3852 and decide if any are necesary
[13:06:50 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: are we ok with teh outstanding bugs in pager?
[13:07:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm just about to go through the list for Uploader
[13:07:28 CST(-0600)] <mlam> <--- Editing uploader JIRAs to be more descriptive
[13:07:51 CST(-0600)] <golam> colinclark: great advise on creating JIRA, will keep that in mind
[13:09:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: +1
[13:09:07 CST(-0600)] <jessm> yay, great jira instructions
[13:09:11 CST(-0600)] <jessm> thanks colinclark
[13:09:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm a nerd, anastasiac can probably provide more concrete advice
[13:09:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> she's a wicked writer
[13:09:58 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: i'm investigating adding the application role
[13:10:15 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i'm not sure if the items around the table are necessary for the demo or not
[13:10:15 CST(-0600)] <jessm> great, thanks Justin_o! it seems like the highest priority
[13:10:45 CST(-0600)] <heidi> colinclark not sure about the inline style tag for setting height of div. but i'm being maybe too nit-picky
[13:11:53 CST(-0600)] <jessm> michelled: ping
[13:12:31 CST(-0600)] <michelled> hi jessm - I need to catch up bit on this conversation
[13:13:21 CST(-0600)] <heidi> mlam wanna move that inline style into fl-scroller?
[13:13:28 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> when writing JIRAs, it's helpful if the one-line summary describes the behaviour that the user would see; this way, when people are searching the database to see if an issue already exists, they'll be more likely to recognize something that describes what they're seeing. More specific details about what might be going on under the hood can be put into the longer description.
[13:15:05 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> so instead of "attach click handler to relevant elements" try "nothing happens when user clicks on list items"
[13:15:45 CST(-0600)] <michelled> jessm, I can look at golam's patch if that's helpful
[13:16:44 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: good advice
[13:17:02 CST(-0600)] <jessm> michelled: yes, please
[13:18:26 CST(-0600)] <jessm> anastasiac: another great bit of jira advice
[13:18:35 CST(-0600)] * jessm collects advice and puts in wiki...
[13:19:32 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: it seems NVDA 2010.1 has the same issue.
[13:19:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> weird
[13:20:08 CST(-0600)] <jhung> yeah. Makes me want to revert a few versions to see if it's something we introduced.
[13:22:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: I don't know what to do, exactly
[13:22:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We could spend a lot of time trying to trace it
[13:22:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but on the other hand, i feel best about a well-informed fix
[13:22:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: any advice?
[13:24:48 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i'm not sure yet either... maybe a quick google search might help or checking the nvda bug tracker
[13:24:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok
[13:24:55 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jhung: hold off on more sleuthing for now
[13:25:22 CST(-0600)] <jhung> jessm: okay.
[13:25:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: I'm sorry to ask you this...
[13:25:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Can you fire me the list of Uploader JIRAs again?
[13:25:44 CST(-0600)] <jessm> sure, no problem
[13:25:58 CST(-0600)] <jessm> 3846, 3851, 3852
[13:26:20 CST(-0600)] <jessm> basically flash, no feedback on mode switching, and empty file queue although it shows uploaded files still
[13:26:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks
[13:27:04 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark, jhung : http://www.nvda-project.org/ticket/783
[13:27:14 CST(-0600)] <mlam> jameswy: was there a JIRA created for the uploader focus issue on the browse button?
[13:27:25 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> mlam: No. Did you want me to make one?
[13:27:29 CST(-0600)] <heidi> mlam commented about inline style on FLUID-3837
[13:27:47 CST(-0600)] <mlam> jameswy: it's ok, i'll create one thanks
[13:27:52 CST(-0600)] <mlam> heidi: thanks!
[13:28:02 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> mlam: Alrighty.
[13:28:42 CST(-0600)] <jessm> i hope i haven't missed any big bugs that anyone mentioned
[13:29:47 CST(-0600)] <heidi> golam gonna check out yr live region patch
[13:30:14 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi: ok cool
[13:30:59 CST(-0600)] <heidi> justin_o what shall i test after?
[13:32:02 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> heidi: maybe you can start with golam's progress patch
[13:32:13 CST(-0600)] <mlam> jessm: can you add FLUID-3854 to the uploader jira list? i have a fix, but i want to run this one with colinclark first
[13:32:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi: I updated your JIRA with a bit of the advice that anastasiac suggested. Can you take a look and let me know if it makes sense? http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3846
[13:32:17 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> after that i'm not sure till we get some more of these other patches in...
[13:32:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, I'd like advice on FLUID-3846, jessm and Justin_o
[13:32:46 CST(-0600)] <athena> anastasiac / jessm - for anyone who was curious, it turns out that the select menu issue i experienced isn't mobile-specific, though it does seem safari-specific
[13:32:56 CST(-0600)] <heidi> colinclark :cool thanks
[13:33:10 CST(-0600)] <athena> right now what i'm seeing is that if i set an ID on the select menu, no option is selected when the page loads
[13:33:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's probably not a showstopper, since we can assume that Jan_ has Flash installed for these demos
[13:33:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And it's sort of a "tip of the iceberg" issue
[13:33:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Since it points to the fact that mlam and I haven't yet had the chance to implement the full tiered progressive enhancement strategy for Uploader
[13:33:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Meaning HTML 5 > Flash > Single file upload
[13:33:58 CST(-0600)] <jamon> ping jessm
[13:34:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> On the other hand, it's a stupid bug and an easy fix
[13:34:53 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: so, even though it's capable of doing html 5 > flash > single file it goes to Flash?
[13:34:58 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jamon: yep?
[13:35:20 CST(-0600)] <michelled> jessm, golam, Justin_o: just committed golam's patch
[13:35:29 CST(-0600)] <jessm> michelled: great
[13:35:37 CST(-0600)] <jessm> michelled: can you point it out to heidi so she can test?
[13:35:40 CST(-0600)] <michelled> I think 3751 should be closed now and any other progress issues should be opened as new bugs
[13:36:01 CST(-0600)] <jessm> michelled: +1 it looked like a kitchen sink jira
[13:36:06 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: that ok? ^
[13:37:44 CST(-0600)] <jessm> mlam: 3854 looks like a good one to patch – are you hoping for a review then?
[13:38:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: Well, it's not yet capable of doing html 5 > flash > single file
[13:38:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And it's got some hard coding
[13:38:19 CST(-0600)] <mlam> i'm conversing with colinclark now about it
[13:38:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so it thinks "ack, no flash!"
[13:38:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and that's where the bug happens
[13:39:16 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: so, if it's a quick fix, even if it opens a can o' worms, it seems more important than the other bugs (except 3854)
[13:39:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I can fix it fast--you think I should, jessm?
[13:39:55 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: yeah, let's do it. many points of failure re: flash
[13:40:08 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm, michelled: makes sense
[13:40:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: Still a bug in FF4
[13:40:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> why is it not blurring?!?!
[13:40:44 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: if you fix 3846 and review mlam's fix for 3854, i say we test uploader and put a bow on it for demoing
[13:41:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: I'm in the midst of reviewing 3854 (I think)
[13:41:13 CST(-0600)] <jessm> michelled: will you please close 3751?
[13:41:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The problem is that the fix is based on a side effect
[13:41:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I just can't make sense of it
[13:41:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam's fix works great
[13:41:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it just knows too much
[13:41:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Are you around?
[13:42:12 CST(-0600)] <jamon> jessm: hi, chat about chat when you have time, pm me
[13:42:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm just puzzling over why blur doesn't blur
[13:43:05 CST(-0600)] <mlam> colinclark: it may be a timing issue (without my cheap fix). if i put a breakpoint on line 165 and 168 of the HTML5Uploader file, it works.
[13:43:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> hmmmmm
[13:43:14 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> You mean, why it doesn't actually cause the UI effect of blurring, when you invoke it?
[13:43:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> freak!
[13:43:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> that's it
[13:43:17 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Surely that is impossible
[13:43:24 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> ?
[13:43:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: no no
[13:43:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, perhaps you remember something from our great learning experience with the keyboard plugin
[13:43:55 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> About "how not to try to cause a transfer of focus in a focus event handler"?
[13:44:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We have some code in Uploader that, somewhat suspiciously, programmatically calls focus() on another element
[13:44:09 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> right
[13:44:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And blur() on the element that has focus is not being called
[13:44:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, in this case, focus is on an < input > element
[13:44:26 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Seems reasonable
[13:44:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> onchange fires on that < input >
[13:44:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and a listener to that (indirectly) programmatically moves focus elsewhere
[13:45:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> blur() on the < input > isn't getting called
[13:45:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> except, of course, with a breakpoint in place
[13:45:40 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> ok
[13:45:49 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> So what is the purpose of calling focus when you receive onchange?
[13:46:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The original design goal, which I don't keenly want to revisit, was to place focus in the most important next spot of activity
[13:46:30 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> hum
[13:46:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> in other words, we're moving focus to the "Upload" button after a user adds files to the queue
[13:46:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> which makes some sense
[13:47:31 CST(-0600)] <heidi> golam i tested your live region progress patch
[13:47:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Nothing obvious comes to mind?
[13:47:53 CST(-0600)] <heidi> it now does read "restart the demo" but doesn't say it's a link, and when you tab to it (next tab), it has no text on it
[13:48:04 CST(-0600)] <heidi> ie. you hear nothing when you tab to the "restart the demo" link
[13:49:20 CST(-0600)] <jhung> jessm: new simple inline edit demo jira - http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3855
[13:49:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok, i'll assume no
[13:49:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: The nasty fix is to focus in a timeout
[13:50:00 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jhung: colour and style on a Thursday?!
[13:50:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I assume some tests might well fail as a result, though you could try it
[13:50:34 CST(-0600)] <heidi> golam is this the same for you
[13:50:41 CST(-0600)] <jessm> eek, michelled might be premature to close that jira if golam still has some fixes
[13:50:42 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Well, I guess the only thing that comes to mind is not to do it
[13:51:03 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I'm not sure if we mightn't adopt a prohibition on programmatically moving focus around as a fundamental design principle
[13:51:25 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jhung: can i get you to tackle 3845 today?
[13:51:32 CST(-0600)] <jessm> and 3855 will go on the roster for 1.3?
[13:51:43 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi: let me drop by
[13:51:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: I'm not quite sure it's so clear cut
[13:52:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> this is a huge efficiency booster for a keyboard-only user, among others
[13:52:02 CST(-0600)] <heidi> sure - maybe test on yr machine first golam
[13:52:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> i'm unconvinced that it's a very good approach for screen reader users, however
[13:52:36 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> To be honest I'm not sure it's such a great efficiency booster... I was using such a site the other day
[13:52:41 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi: could please drop by to my desk so I can understand what you mean
[13:52:42 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark, jessm: so adding the application role to the pager's container causes the table navigation to get messed up... so i guess you would have to change it when you got inside the table
[13:52:52 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> And given it "helpfully" moved the focus around when I had done certain things, I actually ended up looking at the wrong element
[13:52:59 CST(-0600)] <jhung> jessm: yes. working on that too.
[13:53:01 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Since I was naturally pressing Tab myself to move the focus
[13:54:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Okay, so you're using a single switch
[13:54:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and you have 10 files you want to upload
[13:54:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> you go through the fairly time consuming process to add the files in the OS dialog
[13:54:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> what's the next likely thing you want to do?
[13:55:31 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Well - couldn't I likely want to remember that I might want to add new files?
[13:55:36 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Or perhaps cancel the whole operation?
[13:55:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> right, but you have to play the odds with a design like that
[13:56:18 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Well, I guess you know my longstanding shibboleth about "things that move around"
[13:56:22 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> That is, things other than a CATTT
[13:56:59 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> "finding the UI unexpectedly in a state not the one directly that you left it in"
[13:57:31 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> A subcase of this might be those old-style apps that thought it was "helpful" to "warp the mouse pointer onto a button" so that people were helped by having the "next likely thing they might click on" be under their thumb
[13:57:40 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I think thankfully people have stopped doing this now...
[13:57:48 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: does that mean we'll hold off on 3853?
[13:58:39 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I actually want to talk about a subcase of this too, for FLUID-3709
[13:58:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Well, now it's a typically feature of an OS's assistive technology features
[13:58:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I realise that there is a significant problem implementing this "announce the orientation of the reorderer" JIRA
[13:59:22 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Which is part of the significant remaining case we move focus around, which is inherited from our idiom on "selectables"
[13:59:48 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> So - given that we immediately transfer focus from the container onto its first selectable, going in the forwards direction, there is actually no "state" where the user is focused on the container
[13:59:59 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Which means there is actually no time we can make this announcement of orientation
[14:01:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I am growingly convinced that all cases in a design where focus is programmatically transferred represent an error, even including this historical one...
[14:03:20 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Why shouldn't there be a UI condition in which the screenreader announcement is "container - 9 elements" followed by the next one being "element <blah>, 1 of 9"?
[14:06:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm & Justin_o: I want to leave this FLUID-3854 as-is
[14:06:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Here's my rationale:
[14:07:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> 1. The fix isn't quite sufficient--it's not quite production ready
[14:07:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> 2. Other alternatives show that there are actually a larger case of focus problems in the Uploader
[14:07:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Very strange things happen!
[14:08:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, it kinds of sucks, but it's not a deal breaker
[14:08:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We might well want to file it as a blocker for 1.3
[14:08:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> in context of the larger question of "should we be throwing focus around programmatically at all?"
[14:09:02 CST(-0600)] <heidi> golam yeah you're patch doesn't appear on build yet.
[14:09:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I mean, the funny thing about this issue is that it's a good one to have
[14:09:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Given that previously, Uploader didn't work with the keyboard at all!
[14:09:26 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Hum
[14:09:36 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi: ok
[14:10:56 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi: I found the solution, if you change the mode to browse then tab works
[14:11:44 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi: some how the mode automatically switches to different mode
[14:12:23 CST(-0600)] <heidi> golam, so it reads the live region, and you can tab to the link, but when you tab out it switches or something?
[14:12:34 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi: yes
[14:14:50 CST(-0600)] <heidi> golam .. yeah it's weird sometimes its fine for me
[14:15:45 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi: if you change the mode to browse then it will consistently give you the right message when focus on live region
[14:15:54 CST(-0600)] <heidi> okay cool
[14:16:26 CST(-0600)] <jessm> golam: is that a bug though?
[14:16:43 CST(-0600)] <jessm> golam: can you update me on the status of 3751 then?
[14:17:50 CST(-0600)] <heidi> golam i'm not sure i've seen a case where focusing on a link doesn't tell you the name of it. does it happen elsewhere when you switch the mode?
[14:18:42 CST(-0600)] <golam> Justin_o, jessm: I don't think its a bug, michelled already code reviewed and checked in
[14:19:04 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi: you tested golam's fix for 3751?
[14:19:37 CST(-0600)] <heidi> golam yeah the non-reading of links happens on other demos too, so it must just be a mode issue. just not sure why it auto-switches but maybe we can't control it.
[14:19:50 CST(-0600)] <heidi> ill add a comment jessm
[14:20:38 CST(-0600)] <heidi> jessm i don't think it's a bug. for some reason nvda switches modes when you tab away from the 'restart' link
[14:20:49 CST(-0600)] <heidi> so that when you tab back to it, it no longer reads the link
[14:20:54 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi: weird
[14:20:59 CST(-0600)] <jessm> that's an nvda issue?
[14:21:03 CST(-0600)] <heidi> i guess so?
[14:21:03 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi: nvda does auto switching
[14:22:00 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi: but if you change the focus then you should be able to hear the content inside a link
[14:22:38 CST(-0600)] <heidi> looks like its a firefox thing... (reading forums). where ff switches the mode when you go to a browser menu by automatically opening submenus
[14:23:41 CST(-0600)] <heidi> or something...
[14:23:42 CST(-0600)] <heidi> http://groups.google.com/group/free-aria/browse_thread/thread/c7d93105884074df/e740ee9e58c35f1f?pli=1
[14:26:16 CST(-0600)] <mlam> jessm: Justin_o: we have a patch ready for FLUID-3846
[14:26:33 CST(-0600)] <mlam> ie. if you don't have flash installed, you get the degraded non-js version of uploader. This check is likely leftover from when uploader was flash. prob happens on all browsers
[14:26:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: +1 on your fix
[14:27:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> go ahead and merge if from the 3722 branch into the aegis-demo branch
[14:27:10 CST(-0600)] <jessm> mlam: awesome
[14:28:00 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: are you heads-down?
[14:28:11 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: my head just came up
[14:28:29 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: can you help me sort through the remaining bugs n' stuff?
[14:28:34 CST(-0600)] <jessm> can we have a quick skype chat?
[14:28:35 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: sure
[14:28:38 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> yep
[14:28:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: when you're done, can you resolve the JIRA?
[14:28:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> then assign it to heidi to verify that it's fixed?
[14:29:07 CST(-0600)] <mlam> yup
[14:29:20 CST(-0600)] <heidi> mlam does it also degrade to flash in IE?
[14:29:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi: Like I say, no IE for these demos
[14:29:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Not ready yet
[14:30:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> not relevant, since Jan is testing with NVDA and Firefox
[14:30:18 CST(-0600)] <heidi> just wondering
[14:30:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and we've still got to devise a nice new algorithm for gracefully degrading from HTML 5 > Flash > Single Upload
[14:30:46 CST(-0600)] <jhung> justin_o, colinclark: regarding FLUID-3845 with "auto complete" being announced by NVDA in FF3.6. I added some more detail to the Jira, but according to NVDA, it's an issue with FF.
[14:30:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> wow, fascinating
[14:31:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so it doesn't happen with IE 8, then?
[14:31:19 CST(-0600)] <heidi> yeah same with the progress issue. NVDA auto-switches modes because of FF
[14:31:24 CST(-0600)] <jhung> IE8 is inconclusive because of oustanding issues with the component and IE8.
[14:31:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark>
[14:31:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> okay
[14:31:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Shall we file an "escalate" bug about this issue in our repo
[14:32:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and then go ahead and commit jhung's fix?
[14:32:06 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i think that makes
[14:32:17 CST(-0600)] <jessm> +1
[14:32:30 CST(-0600)] <jessm> as they say on Project Runway, Make it work people!
[14:32:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: Can you update the bug to the escalate status?
[14:32:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And then update your patch in two ways:
[14:33:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> 1. Stick a big comment in there explaining the issue and including the JIRA number
[14:33:10 CST(-0600)] <heidi> golam added comment on FLUID-3751
[14:33:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> 2. Using double quotes instead of single for your strings, and run it through JSLint just in case?
[14:33:29 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi: I will look into the jira
[14:33:54 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: roger that. Will repost the patch when that's done and inform the channel.
[14:34:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks, you rule,jhung !
[14:34:34 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi: looks good
[14:34:46 CST(-0600)] <heidi> ff auto-switches it's mode if you tab to a thing that requires it
[14:35:02 CST(-0600)] <heidi> but doesn't seem to switch back to browse when you leave !
[14:35:56 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> fluid-everyone: so update on the pager issue about adding an application role
[14:36:25 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> so i tried this out... it does indeed make most of the controls sound better, because of added descriptions. However the table navigation doesn't work in focus mode.
[14:36:33 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi: you mean ff or NVDA?
[14:36:48 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> The users will have to manually switch to the browse mode when then get into the table
[14:36:52 CST(-0600)] <heidi> golam looks like the auto-switch is something one can turn off under virtual buffers
[14:37:24 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> if we leave the application role off, then the table navigation works properly and the user could get to all the pager controls, but with less descriptive information
[14:37:38 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi: good to know
[14:38:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: What if the Pager controls had an application role and the table had a document role?
[14:38:42 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi: golam: so we've put 3751 to rest?
[14:38:44 CST(-0600)] <jessm> sealed?
[14:38:46 CST(-0600)] <jessm> delivered?
[14:38:48 CST(-0600)] <heidi> jessm yep!
[14:38:54 CST(-0600)] <michelled> colinclark: it's an issue for the table headers which give more information with the application role on
[14:39:01 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: well..the headers in the table need the application role to read out the title descriptions
[14:39:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> aha
[14:39:35 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i tried putting a document role on the table body but that didn't seem to help at all
[14:39:36 CST(-0600)] <golam> jessm: yes
[14:39:40 CST(-0600)] <jessm> mlam: you've patched 3846 - is it in need of a review?
[14:40:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: I reviewed it
[14:40:11 CST(-0600)] <jessm> harriswong: you tested the reorderers? is that right?
[14:40:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We need heidi to verify the fix if possible
[14:40:20 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: rock on – so, it's in
[14:40:31 CST(-0600)] <heidi> mlam did you test it by deleting yr flash? i can do the same ya
[14:40:44 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> jessm: with NVDA?
[14:41:00 CST(-0600)] <jessm> harriswong: no, with yer bare hands! no NVDA, just browser
[14:41:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi: How did you discover the issue in the first place?
[14:42:00 CST(-0600)] <mlam> jhung: any suggestions for FLUID-3852? What feedback would you expect to hear?
[14:42:02 CST(-0600)] <heidi> colinclark didnt have flash on my vm
[14:42:05 CST(-0600)] <heidi> am deleting now
[14:42:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ah, then you installed it
[14:42:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> i get it
[14:42:23 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark, jessm, michelled: I'm leaning towards adding the application role to the pager container, it wil still read that the user is in a table when they get to the table header. If they want to read the table contents they will at least know they are in a table and can switch modes
[14:42:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks, heidi
[14:42:26 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> jessm: a bit, when i was working on the layoutReorderer, and just a while ago i was actually testing it with NVDA. Would you like me to test the 4 reorderers manually?
[14:42:44 CST(-0600)] <jessm> harriswong: that would be awesome. i was supposed to and have failed to
[14:44:03 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I just heard mention of NVDA there
[14:44:16 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> Bosmon, Justin_o, jessm: okay!
[14:44:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm, Justin_o: so the two remaining Uploader issues... 3851 and 3852
[14:44:54 CST(-0600)] <heidi> mlam still goes to simple uploader
[14:45:02 CST(-0600)] <heidi> did you try w/o flash on yr machine?
[14:45:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam and I need a bit more clarification about the correct behaviour
[14:45:32 CST(-0600)] <mlam> heidi: did you try to clear your cache? i'm going to do that on my vBox right now
[14:46:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: For the application role on Pager, as long as the user can happily change modes, I say go for it
[14:46:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I imagine most users will already be accustomed to switching modes when they meet a table
[14:46:43 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: okay
[14:46:43 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> {color}
[14:46:48 CST(-0600)] <jhung> justin_o: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3845 is ready for review.
[14:46:49 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jhung: you still slaying 3845?
[14:46:54 CST(-0600)] <jessm> doh!
[14:46:57 CST(-0600)] <jhung> lol
[14:47:00 CST(-0600)] <jessm>
[14:47:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: I'll make you a deal
[14:47:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'll review 3845
[14:47:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Can you look at 3852 and tell us what you think we should do in terms of feedback?
[14:47:55 CST(-0600)] <heidi> mlam cache cleared - no lcuk
[14:48:08 CST(-0600)] <heidi> on http://build.fluidproject.org/incubator/uploader/FLUID-3722/src/webapp/components/uploader/html/Uploader.html
[14:48:15 CST(-0600)] <heidi> oh darn
[14:48:15 CST(-0600)] <jessm> michelled: can you do some testing with heidi of 3846?
[14:48:16 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: I will do what I can before heading out.
[14:48:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi:
[14:48:19 CST(-0600)] <heidi> wrong url
[14:48:21 CST(-0600)] <heidi> oyyy
[14:48:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We haven't rebuilt the daily recently, so you'll have to check out the aegis-demo branch, update, and test from there
[14:48:50 CST(-0600)] <heidi> but still happening on http://build.fluidproject.org/incubator/aegis-demo-nov-2010/src/webapp/components/uploader/html/Uploader.html too
[14:48:59 CST(-0600)] <heidi> oh okay, ill do local then
[14:49:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks
[14:49:25 CST(-0600)] <jessm> or michelled if you and Justin_o are still working on pager, then it looks like heidi is pointed in the right direction now
[14:49:43 CST(-0600)] <jessm> mlam: is someone going to have to move uploader to the url we think it lives at?
[14:49:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: can you elaborate?
[14:50:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> do you mean rebuild daily?
[14:50:28 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: well, we all go to http://build.fluidproject.org/infusion/demos/uploader/demo.html
[14:50:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ah, yes, that one
[14:50:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Do we have a JIRA for that?
[14:50:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark>
[14:50:42 CST(-0600)] <jessm> but even after rebuild, isn't this the sad puppies one?
[14:50:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> the puppies remain sad
[14:50:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> i can fix the puppies
[14:50:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> If we think it's a worthwhile fix
[14:51:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> which I think it is
[14:51:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> poor puppies
[14:51:06 CST(-0600)] <jessm> mlam is an expert jira writer
[14:51:06 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> ?
[14:51:11 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> What puppies do we have?
[14:51:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam is coding
[14:51:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> which is why I keep answering for him
[14:51:22 CST(-0600)] <jessm> oh, i'll jira it up
[14:51:27 CST(-0600)] <jessm> it'll be horrible
[14:51:29 CST(-0600)] <jessm> but i'll do it
[14:51:32 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Is this the new jqunit "your tests have failed" animation?
[14:51:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> woe is jessm
[14:51:36 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> it consists of sad puppies?
[14:51:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: No, I said something yesterday about how cutting and pasting code makes puppies cry
[14:52:05 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> aha
[14:52:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and no one likes to see a puppy cry
[14:52:19 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> We should totally make a code duplication detection tool that displays sad puppies
[14:52:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> or an entirely cut and pasted version of the uploader's markup, for that matter
[14:52:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So jessm, in terms of detail for the JIRA...
[14:52:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> t
[14:52:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> the short answer is that the Uploader demo is just a complete cut and paste job of the markup of Uploader's template
[14:53:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so we'll need to do some AJAX trickery to load the template from the file system
[14:53:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I should say "template"
[14:54:07 CST(-0600)] <jessm> eek
[14:54:13 CST(-0600)] <jessm> my jira didn't have any of that detail
[14:54:17 CST(-0600)] <jessm> 3856
[14:54:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> lol
[14:54:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> what a bizarre jira
[14:54:45 CST(-0600)] <jessm> lol
[14:54:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yet strangely correct
[14:55:29 CST(-0600)] <jessm> updated
[14:56:30 CST(-0600)] <jessm> fluid-everyone i'm sending progress off to Jan for testing
[14:56:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3856
[14:56:59 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: wow, you're good at that
[14:57:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark>
[14:57:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> except for my grammar!
[14:57:32 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: do i need to rebuild daily before i tell Jan to test progress?
[14:58:21 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: yes i think so... unless it has already been done... i haven't been following it unfortunately
[14:58:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: mlam has the code all set up for whatever you decide on
[14:58:32 CST(-0600)] <jessm> k, i'm on it
[14:58:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> +1 for rebuild
[14:58:39 CST(-0600)] <jessm> fluid-everyone i'm going to rebuild daily
[14:58:48 CST(-0600)] <jessm> hold onto your shoes
[14:58:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> remember, jessm, compulsively press the "Show Projects" button
[14:59:03 CST(-0600)] <jessm> rt
[14:59:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> obsessively, even
[14:59:39 CST(-0600)] <jessm> i'm going to do fluid all nightly build and deploy since i'm not worried about uploader now, right?
[15:00:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> you want an incubator rebuild
[15:00:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> this branch lives in the incubator
[15:00:52 CST(-0600)] <jessm> incubator nightly ?
[15:01:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yepper
[15:01:31 CST(-0600)] <heidi> mlam flash no longer needed! hallelujah
[15:02:03 CST(-0600)] <jessm> woot!
[15:09:12 CST(-0600)] <mlam> heidi! sweet!
[15:11:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm and Justin_o: I just had a really good conversation with jameswy about http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3851
[15:11:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> do you have both have a sec to chat about it, jessm and Justin_o?
[15:12:13 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: sure
[15:12:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, this issue is about a lack of feedback when you switch between the big uploader and the single-file one with my ugly link
[15:13:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> the history of this is sort of relevant
[15:13:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We added that manual switch when the Flash 10 mess happened
[15:13:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> the motivation was that Flash 10 in non-IE browsers was such a fatal mess that we had to give users a way out if they were having trouble using SWFUpload
[15:13:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> HTML 5 is sort of a new dawn for the Uploader
[15:14:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so the question is, when we get to the point of a tiered graceful degradation strategy (HTML 5 > Flash > Single File), do we still need a manual control like this?
[15:14:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I can see, way into the future, that a user might choose a preference for one of these using UI Options, independent of what their browser supports
[15:14:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> But that's a ways off
[15:15:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So jameswy was thinking that we maybe don't even need this manual degradation control anymore
[15:15:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Uploader will still gracefully degrade to the single-file if JavaScript is turned off
[15:15:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm, Justin_o: Any thoughts?
[15:18:02 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i would agree with that for the html5 version
[15:18:12 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i think the flash version may still need the manual switch
[15:19:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: why?
[15:19:47 CST(-0600)] <jessm> interesting
[15:20:44 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: because an AT user who prefers IE may not want to use the flash version
[15:22:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Okay, I might go with that argument
[15:22:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And counter with a lazy argument of my own
[15:23:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> If we want support like this, we should build it specifically for the Flash version, and in the interim take the control out of the HTML 5 version and then this bug is moot for the demo freeze
[15:23:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Do you buy my lazy argument?
[15:23:51 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: totally
[15:23:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> lol
[15:24:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> wow, i had no idea i was so convincing
[15:24:33 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i think that makes sense... i can't see why anyone would want to degrade from the html5 to a single file html version or the flash version
[15:26:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok, cool
[15:26:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> i just walked michelled through it and she buys it, too
[15:27:57 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> +1
[15:33:59 CST(-0600)] <jhung> mlam: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3852 added comment
[15:34:16 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: i've committed the application role fix for pager to the aegis branch... feel free to update the build site whenever is good
[15:34:39 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: cool!
[15:34:41 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> I think that is the only pager issue we were planning to address so you can pass it to jan for testing
[15:35:29 CST(-0600)] <jessm> ok, final round-up
[15:36:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> michelled is advocating for kicking puppies
[15:36:21 CST(-0600)] <jessm> fluid-everyone progress is ready to go 3751 has been fixed, pager is ready to go 3853 has been committed, inline-edit is ready to go?? 3845 needed review colinclark, uploader is ready to go, 3846 is committed
[15:36:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> or at least watching them cry
[15:36:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> uploader is not quite ready to go
[15:37:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> we've got two or three more issues to solve, but they're all minor
[15:38:05 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: you also have a review of 3845 on your plate, right?
[15:38:09 CST(-0600)] <jessm> wanna pass that one?
[15:38:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yeah
[15:40:19 CST(-0600)] <heidi> colinclark does the uploader ding for large file upload progress
[15:40:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> as far as I know it does, yes
[15:40:39 CST(-0600)] <michelled> I'll take a look at 3845
[15:40:56 CST(-0600)] <jessm> michelled: thanks!
[15:43:17 CST(-0600)] <heidi> colinclark, confirmed, it does ding
[15:51:16 CST(-0600)] <mlam> jessm: committing fix for FLUID-3852, then merging changes to aegis branch
[15:51:48 CST(-0600)] <jessm> mlam: cool, it's fixed already? i figured it'd take some design love – what's the fix?
[15:52:11 CST(-0600)] <mlam> jhung: gave it lots of design love
[15:52:18 CST(-0600)] <jessm> oh cool!
[15:52:30 CST(-0600)] <mlam> we're just giving a more detailed summary for all the files in the file queue
[15:52:56 CST(-0600)] <mlam> even if there are no files to be uploaded, we still provide feedback for how many files have been successfully uploaded
[15:53:00 CST(-0600)] * jhung puts on Barry White...
[15:53:37 CST(-0600)] <mlam> jhung: you have to turn up the volume so we can all hear!
[15:54:02 CST(-0600)] <jessm> awesome
[15:54:09 CST(-0600)] <heidi> why does the pager skip the "previous" link after loading a new page
[15:54:41 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi: is that 3847?
[15:54:57 CST(-0600)] <heidi> yep yep yep - sorry
[15:55:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: FLUID-3852 will need some Uploader NVDA testing from someone
[15:55:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> just to make sure it rocks
[15:56:15 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi: can you do the uploader NVDA on 3852?
[15:56:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I can give you an update on the other two Uploader issues...
[15:56:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3851I'm going to punt on by removing the manual degrade link
[15:57:12 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: what's that link again?
[15:57:22 CST(-0600)] <heidi> ill check it now - is it on build colin ? i'm leaving in 3min to catch train
[15:57:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3851
[15:57:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi: You'll have to update your working copy
[15:57:46 CST(-0600)] <heidi> k
[15:57:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> perhaps better for someone who doesn't have to leave in three minutes to test it
[15:57:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> we don't want a regression to slip through
[15:58:03 CST(-0600)] <heidi> colinclark and working copy = incubator aegis?
[15:58:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yes
[15:59:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: For http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3856, michelled and Justin_o have recommended an approach that involves half crying puppies, half frolicking puppies
[15:59:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I will go ahead and commit FLUID-3851 now, and then start on FLUID-3856
[16:00:46 CST(-0600)] <heidi> still says file queue empty
[16:00:47 CST(-0600)] <heidi> gotta go
[16:03:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jamon: Are you around? I'm getting some pretty wicked post-commit errors coming from our SVN server
[16:03:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> looks like it's related to the infusion test swarm
[16:05:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Hey fluid-everyone, does anyone have a few cycles to test mlam's Uploader fix with NVDA?
[16:06:36 CST(-0600)] <mlam> harriswong: you have a few mins to quickly test FLUID-3852 with NVDA?
[16:06:49 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark, mlam: on it.
[16:06:53 CST(-0600)] <mlam> thank you!
[16:07:58 CST(-0600)] <michelled> jessm: I've committed Jon's patch for 3845 to the incubator branch but it's not ready for trunk.
[16:08:08 CST(-0600)] <michelled> We need to do some more design thinking and exploration before we put this fix into trunk. We are doing more then just controlling what the screen reader says, we are actually changing the default behaviour of the input and removing the browser's inbuilt autocomplete behaviour. We need to determine whether we are correct in assuming that having the browser read 'edit autocomplete' is in fact confusing and we also need to determine that we truly want
[16:09:04 CST(-0600)] <jessm> michelled: interesting
[16:09:39 CST(-0600)] <jessm> michelled: can you test out 3852?
[16:09:43 CST(-0600)] <jessm> michelled: do you have NVDA?
[16:10:01 CST(-0600)] <michelled> jessm: I can't run any ATs on my poor little machine
[16:10:17 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: ?
[16:12:33 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: sure...
[16:12:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: Okay, FLUID-3851 should be in. michelled can you quick test it for me?
[16:13:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The short version of the test involves not seeing the manually degrade link
[16:13:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and everything else working happily
[16:13:18 CST(-0600)] <michelled> sure colinclark
[16:13:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks michelled
[16:13:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> i guess you might also want to test with javascript turned off and make sure that it all still works
[16:13:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: I'm closing in on the last issue, the puppies crying
[16:14:02 CST(-0600)] <michelled> colinclark: where will I find the patch?
[16:14:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> michelled: In the aegis-demo branch
[16:14:19 CST(-0600)] <michelled> ok
[16:14:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> should i have made a patch?
[16:14:49 CST(-0600)] <jessm> yay, we're almost done!
[16:20:48 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark, mlam, jessm: tested NVDA with http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3852. It reads me "File list: x files uploaded, y file waiting to be uploaded." on focus after a completed upload.
[16:21:13 CST(-0600)] <jessm> harriswong: that sounds good to me
[16:21:23 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark, mlam, jessm: upon a fresh reload, tabbed into the filelist, had it focus, it read me "File list: No files waiting to be uploaded.", as wanted.
[16:24:51 CST(-0600)] <mlam> thanks for testing the JIRA harris
[16:26:20 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> mlan: np
[16:30:42 CST(-0600)] <jamon> colinclark: forward an error my way?
[16:31:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jamon: I've lost it, cleared my buffer
[16:31:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> let's hope it reappears after a commit
[16:31:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It was unable to do a number of the steps related to test swarm after a commit
[16:31:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but I should have pasted the errors
[16:31:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm about two minutes away from a commit
[16:31:57 CST(-0600)] <jamon> colinclark: sounds like it will recur, i won't have time tomorrow to look at it, but we can resolve it for sure
[16:32:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> You won't have time tomorrow? Or won't have time until tomorrow?
[16:32:53 CST(-0600)] <jamon> both, thesis defence tomorrow colinclark
[16:33:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> oh, good luck with that--exciting!
[16:33:20 CST(-0600)] <jamon> ty, nervous
[16:33:23 CST(-0600)] <jamon> should be good
[16:33:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm sure you'll be great
[16:33:46 CST(-0600)] <jamon> like i said, errors will likely recur, so foward whatever gets generated and i can poke through the logs
[16:33:49 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jamon: break a leg
[16:34:00 CST(-0600)] <jamon> thanks jessm, will try not to
[16:47:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: seconds away from a commit
[16:47:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and then we're done done
[16:47:49 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: seriously cool
[16:47:57 CST(-0600)] <jessm> then we rebuild and fire off an email to Jan
[16:48:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yep
[16:55:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: I'm gonna rebuild incubator now
[16:55:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> w
[16:55:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> we're hopefully about 3.5 minutes away from being frozen
[16:56:07 CST(-0600)] <jessm> cool
[16:57:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> michelled_, can you triple-check and close this issue once the build is done? http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3856
[16:57:46 CST(-0600)] <michelled_> sure
[17:02:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> michelled_, jessm: http://build.fluidproject.org/incubator/aegis-demo-nov-2010/src/webapp/demos/index.html
[17:02:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> One last super-quick runthrough?
[17:02:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I've got NDVA running
[17:05:18 CST(-0600)] <michelled_> this works colinclark
[17:06:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I tested Pager and Uploader with NVDA and they sound hot
[17:06:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Nothing else has changed recently enough to need a retest, right jessm?
[17:06:51 CST(-0600)] <jessm> nope, i think that's the last one to check
[17:07:03 CST(-0600)] <jessm> michelled_: inline edit
[17:07:13 CST(-0600)] <jessm> did you sugmit 3845 and want to revisit?
[17:07:43 CST(-0600)] <michelled_> jessm: I'm happy with 3845 in the demo branch
[17:07:52 CST(-0600)] <michelled_> I want to revisit it before it makes it into trunk
[17:07:57 CST(-0600)] <jessm> michelled_: roger that
[17:08:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Tomorrow will be a busy day
[17:08:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> we have to corral everything that needs to get fixed, as well as things that did get fixed but need to be improved before entering trunk
[17:08:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> golam is off for his holiday now, so we're short one person
[17:08:53 CST(-0600)] <jessm> michelled_: do we need to close 3853?
[17:08:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but we made it through this big deadline, which is awesome
[17:09:24 CST(-0600)] <michelled_> jessm: it needs to go into trunk before it gets closed
[17:09:39 CST(-0600)] <jessm> michelled_: i see, so it was just committed to this branch?
[17:09:59 CST(-0600)] <jessm> i'll help justin_o fix jiras tomorrow
[17:10:12 CST(-0600)] <michelled_> yes - because the other pager patches weren't ready for trunk so we have some cleaning up to do before the pager fixes get in
[17:12:35 CST(-0600)] <jessm> good luck jamon, you'll do great