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[09:38:47 CST(-0600)] <mlam> jhung: are FLUID-3811, FLUID-3812, FLUID-3813 still issues for the inline edit?
[11:19:11 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> anyone know the diff between aria-describedby and aria-labelledby and aria-label ?
[11:20:30 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i think aria-labelledby is for text shown on screen and aria-label isn't, but not sure about describedby
[12:01:39 CST(-0600)] <clown_afk> heidi_ (while I have a moment). aria-label if for a label that is published to the a11y api, but not rendered on screen. aria-labelledy is for a label that is rendered. for aria-describedy, it's kind of like a tool tip – more descriptive than a short label, does not replace the label, and is rendered.
[13:26:50 CST(-0600)] <jhung> mlam: you're working on Uploader, right?
[13:27:15 CST(-0600)] <mlam> yah, i am...i was working on a patch earlier, but I need to switch back to the uploader
[13:27:38 CST(-0600)] <mlam> anything you need from me about inline edit?
[13:27:39 CST(-0600)] <jhung> k. Do you mind if I assign FLUID-3753 to you?
[13:28:05 CST(-0600)] <jhung> mlam: nothing at the moment for Inline Edit.
[13:28:36 CST(-0600)] <mlam> yup, sounds good
[13:29:44 CST(-0600)] <jhung> mlam: thanks!
[13:29:53 CST(-0600)] <michelled> fluid-everyone: is anyone planning to join the dev meeting remotely today?
[13:30:02 CST(-0600)] <mlam> np
[13:30:55 CST(-0600)] <jhung> mlam: the jira has a patch already attached. It may be okay just to patch and review.
[13:31:22 CST(-0600)] <mlam> ok
[13:31:27 CST(-0600)] <mlam> thanks jhung
[13:31:31 CST(-0600)] <michelled> fluid-everyone: Justin_o and I were thinking we should do the dev meeting here today
[13:31:55 CST(-0600)] <mlam> i'll see if i can get it in before tonight
[13:32:56 CST(-0600)] <michelled> basically we just want to do a quick check in on bug parade
[13:34:20 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Justin_o and I were talking this morning about a group of JIRA issues that have patches that haven't been put into trunk yet
[13:34:25 CST(-0600)] <michelled> let's go through those first
[13:34:37 CST(-0600)] <michelled> then we can talk quickly about blockers that are still being worked on
[13:35:01 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> okay.. that sounds good
[13:35:04 CST(-0600)] <jhung> michelled: k
[13:35:07 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Justin_o then wants to talk about the tooltip plugin
[13:35:15 CST(-0600)] <michelled> does anyone else want to talk about anything?
[13:35:54 CST(-0600)] <michelled> ok, let's start talking about those JIRAs
[13:36:23 CST(-0600)] <michelled> http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3771 is framework issue that Bosmon2 is working on
[13:36:35 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Bosmon2: are you here? can you tell us its status?
[13:37:27 CST(-0600)] <michelled> perhaps he'll join us soon
[13:38:34 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> 3771?
[13:38:35 CST(-0600)] <michelled> http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3635 is an inline edit JIRA that mlam is working on. mlam: how's that one coming?
[13:38:42 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Bosmon2: yes
[13:38:43 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I closed that yesterday and it is assigned to Colin for review
[13:39:01 CST(-0600)] <mlam> michelled: I have switched back to the uploader
[13:39:06 CST(-0600)] <mlam> I'll have to work on that one tonight
[13:39:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> needless to say I am somewhat behind on my review backlog (wink)
[13:39:32 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Bosmon2: is the code checked in for 3771?
[13:39:54 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> yes
[13:40:04 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Wouldn't it have been crazy to resolve the issue without the code? (tongue)
[13:40:13 CST(-0600)] <michelled> ah, good - so we'll tackle review for it tomorrow
[13:40:40 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Bosmon2: yes, but sometimes the JIRAs get resolved when there is a patch for it even if the patch hasn't made it to trunk
[13:40:49 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> oh, ok
[13:40:52 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Is that proper?
[13:41:58 CST(-0600)] <michelled> we should probably not do that because it makes it too easy to forget to commit the patch
[13:41:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon2: It is for people who don't have commit access (wink)
[13:42:30 CST(-0600)] <michelled> perhaps we should move to using the comments in JIRA to state that the bug is resolved and needs to be committed
[13:42:59 CST(-0600)] <michelled> mlam: good to know about 3635. Justin_o can I commit his patch tomorrow?
[13:43:02 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Perhaps we could even have a new JIRA status
[13:43:10 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> "fix prepared"
[13:43:22 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon2: that might make sense
[13:43:29 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> a different resolution status?
[13:43:55 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> yes
[13:44:02 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> clown_afk a delayed thank you! am going to check pager and inline-edit to make sure they're using those aria tags correctly
[13:44:04 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> michelled: i think that will be okay... provided its not a day long thing
[13:44:41 CST(-0600)] <michelled> it's a tiny patch - it should be super quick
[13:44:44 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon2: I think that might work... like resolved "with patch" or something or "needs commit"
[13:44:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon2, michelled: new status makes a lot of sense
[13:44:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> "Needs commit" or whatever
[13:45:24 CST(-0600)] <michelled> I like it
[13:46:00 CST(-0600)] <michelled> ok, next JIRA on the list is http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3848 which harriswong is working on. how's that going harriswong?
[13:47:14 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> michelled: Created a patch yesterday based on the most updated trunk rev.
[13:47:38 CST(-0600)] <michelled> are you just waiting for someone to review and commit it then/
[13:47:40 CST(-0600)] <michelled> ?
[13:48:01 CST(-0600)] <michelled> also, how does it relate to 3850?
[13:48:24 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> michelled: Heidi ran a few tests on it and found that IE8 + NVDA broke. I traced it with Heidi + Justin yesterday and today, and found that it could be something specific for IE8. Am fixing it.
[13:49:12 CST(-0600)] <michelled> and will your final patch fix both 3848 and 3850?
[13:49:21 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> michelled: I believe 3848, 3849, 3850 are all related due to the lack of aria-sort and title. This patch on 3848 should fix the other 2 issues as well. Need verification from Justin_o.
[13:49:31 CST(-0600)] <michelled> cool
[13:50:18 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> michelled: 3850, yes. It will report changes to the anchor title and the ariasort on its column header.
[13:50:30 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> harriswong: i'm pretty sure that's true
[13:51:08 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> michelled: Thanks Justin_o. Supposedly we don't need the title change, but I don't think brwosers support aria-sort yet.
[13:51:23 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> michelled: Sorry i mean screenreaders
[13:51:38 CST(-0600)] <michelled> ok, the next issue is http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3860 which will be fixed by mlam's patch for 3635
[13:52:23 CST(-0600)] <mlam> yes, FLUID-3860 and FLUID-3635 are coupled and will need to be committed together
[13:52:58 CST(-0600)] <michelled> next up is http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3862
[13:53:07 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> fluid-everyone: new resolution status of "Needs Commit" has been added to jira
[13:53:19 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Bosmon2: harriswong has a patch for that, do you think you could review and commit it?
[13:53:39 CST(-0600)] <jhung> thanks justin_o. Does that imply "Needs Review" as well/
[13:53:53 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: Yes... i think so..
[13:54:31 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Justin_o: That is really great! quick work
[13:55:04 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon2: thanks
[13:55:05 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Oh gosh, this is awful
[13:55:16 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I'm sorry, harriswong, I completely forgot I hadn't dealt with this patch
[13:55:27 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I am doing reorderer work today and I will make sure I get through it
[13:55:33 CST(-0600)] <michelled> cool
[13:56:00 CST(-0600)] <michelled> next up is http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3870
[13:56:10 CST(-0600)] <michelled> jhung is reworking his patch based on my review
[13:56:17 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> michelled, Bosmon2: 3848's patch-3 still contains the IE8 problem. I am working on it.
[13:56:20 CST(-0600)] <michelled> how's that going jhung?
[13:56:44 CST(-0600)] <michelled> thanks harriswong - let us know when you've squashed it
[13:56:45 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> When we get to the end of this JIRA review section I wanted to have a little time where we discussed "features that will be deprecated" in this release, if we can
[13:57:03 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> In fact I would like us to think about deprecating "reverse merge" and "global options"
[13:57:14 CST(-0600)] <jhung> michelled, I put up a new patch that needs review and commiting.
[13:57:22 CST(-0600)] <jhung> essentially done.
[13:57:58 CST(-0600)] <michelled> cool, I'll review and commit it
[13:58:06 CST(-0600)] * michelled saws cool a lot
[13:58:09 CST(-0600)] <michelled> says
[13:58:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> wicked
[13:58:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> (tongue)
[13:59:35 CST(-0600)] <michelled> the last in the set of JIRAs that have patches that need to be committed is http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3753
[14:00:00 CST(-0600)] <michelled> jhung made a tiny patch for it but since it's uploader related I think it makes sense for colinclark or mlam to commit it
[14:00:09 CST(-0600)] <michelled> one of you want to volunteer?
[14:01:11 CST(-0600)] <michelled> if you don't you might be voluntold (tongue)
[14:01:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> lol
[14:01:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I volunteer mlam!
[14:01:29 CST(-0600)] <jhung> michelled, I think mlam is going to take a look at it. I voluntold him already.
[14:01:31 CST(-0600)] <michelled> lol
[14:01:39 CST(-0600)] <michelled> awesome!
[14:01:44 CST(-0600)] <mlam> fine!
[14:01:55 CST(-0600)] * colinclark is still several inches away from committing progressive enhancement for Uploader
[14:01:55 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> mlam: that's what happens when we lose soccer
[14:02:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: You just need to kick people more, that's my soccer strategy
[14:02:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> right harriswong and heidi_?
[14:02:38 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark: +10000
[14:02:40 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> haha
[14:03:08 CST(-0600)] <michelled> ok, I'm gonna hand this over to the KING to go through blockers that are still outstanding
[14:03:09 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Justin_o's soccor strategy is a bit different
[14:03:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> eek
[14:03:21 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: i didn't do it.. it was the ball
[14:03:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> lol
[14:03:26 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> LOL
[14:03:29 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> same team too wow
[14:03:42 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> that's what hurt the most...
[14:03:47 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> yes... oops..
[14:05:01 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> so first up
[14:05:03 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3487
[14:05:19 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon2: that is one that you were working on, but it needs some unit tests i think
[14:06:19 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon2: also as was mentioned before, FLUID-3862 needs code review and commit from you
[14:06:50 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark, mlam the other two blockers are on your side FLUID-3875, FLUID-3872 for uploader
[14:07:01 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> how are those coming along
[14:07:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Amazingly
[14:07:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> swimmingly
[14:07:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam squashed FLUID-3875, I think
[14:08:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> For http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3872, I am nearly finished my third refactoring of the progressive enhancement system
[14:08:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I expect it will be committed shortly
[14:08:26 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: great.. so both of those will be in after the merge
[14:08:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Yes
[14:08:43 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> great.. and that is still planned for today
[14:08:44 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> ?
[14:08:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Once I get prog enhance in, I'll merge the FLUID-3722 branch
[14:08:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and yes, my plan is to do it today
[14:09:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> feed me some coffee, and it should all be fine
[14:09:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> There's one caveat, King Justin_o
[14:09:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> My latest progressive enhancement strategy, with a bit of help from Bosmon2, is now a completely general tool that can be used by any components
[14:09:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o, you'll be delighted because ProgressEnhancement.js actually does something now
[14:09:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> you always kept threatening to remove it on me (wink)
[14:09:54 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: (smile)
[14:10:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So there are a series of browser feature checks in the fluid.browser namespace
[14:10:05 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i guess i'll have to reconsider now
[14:10:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> which automatically inject context names into the static environment
[14:10:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> which components can use as-is to use IoC to configure themselves based on features of the browser
[14:11:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and there is a new component called fluid.progressiveChecker, which enforces a "tiered" approach to progressive enhancement
[14:11:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> That's what allows us to go from HTML 5 to Flash to single file uploader
[14:11:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, here's the caveat
[14:11:29 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> In my late night delirium, I neglected to write some critical unit tests
[14:11:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And I know that it's your Kingly policy not to allow framework features without unit tests
[14:11:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So,...
[14:12:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm wondering if you'd be willing to let me commit it (when I merge the branch), and once the rest of Uploader has stabilized (i.e. tomorrow), I'll write the unit tests I'm missing?
[14:12:20 CST(-0600)] * colinclark is terribly sheepish
[14:12:41 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: how long do you think that might take
[14:12:51 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> just wondering because of all the general work for tomorrow
[14:12:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's a relatively straightforward chunk of work
[14:13:16 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Yes, tests for 3487....
[14:13:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'd like to say it will be about 2 hours
[14:13:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and I'm willing to make sure I also do my share of general tasks tomorrow
[14:13:51 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> okay... cause we have to be careful about some of the general issues.. as things like line endings (which should be safe for your commit) may have to be rechecked
[14:13:56 CST(-0600)] <michelled> it's pretty dangerous to slip on our policies when he hit major crunch time
[14:14:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'd also like to be really careful with license headers
[14:14:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Since we're now at a new institution
[14:14:15 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> yes
[14:14:15 CST(-0600)] <michelled> it's so tempting but we all know what happens to us later
[14:14:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> we need to add OCAD University, but not take away U of t
[14:14:34 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> colinclark, is the new Progressive Enhancement functionality something that warrants some documentation? is it something we want to let our users know about?
[14:14:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> or the other partners, for that matter
[14:14:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> anastasiac: Good question
[14:15:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon2: I'm thinking it's probably at a sneak peek stage at the moment. What do you think?
[14:15:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> michelled: I guess the alternative, if we want to stick to the letter of policy, is that I could drop options backwards compatibility of the Uploader
[14:15:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> possibly causing cindyli to kill me
[14:15:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> among other users
[14:16:29 CST(-0600)] <michelled> ah, death would not be good. I think if we make the unit test a blocker - meaning we actually don't release until it gets done then it would be ok.
[14:16:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> talk about pressure (smile)
[14:17:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm okay with that, if Justin_o is
[14:17:04 CST(-0600)] <michelled> I wonder if there's someone who could help with some unit test writing today? Relieve some pressure?
[14:17:16 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> michelled: the issue itself is a blocker.. so i think we can consider it not done until the tests are in place
[14:18:23 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> colinclark: I think sneak peek is correct yes
[14:18:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> anastasiac: So sneak peek, and yes I'd love to help you document it
[14:18:43 CST(-0600)] <michelled> colinclark: I'll see if I can lend a hand today
[14:18:45 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Colin and I have been having a private chat about the way this functionality is implemented, and it's clear we need some new framework features to make this clear and moral
[14:18:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's a strangely subtle sort of thing
[14:19:03 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> colinclark, it's not committed yet anywhere, is it?
[14:19:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> anastasiac: erm
[14:19:14 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> The cool part, as it often is with IoC-driven components, is that the component code itself won't need to change once we upgrade the framework
[14:19:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm soooo close
[14:19:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> soooo close
[14:19:30 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> It is the beginnings of a NEWW DDAWN of STTABILLITY!
[14:19:32 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> np, I just wanted to know whether or not I can look at it
[14:19:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> (smile)
[14:19:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> you can look over my shoulder
[14:19:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I can pastebin you some code
[14:19:50 CST(-0600)] * colinclark feels terrible
[14:19:55 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> s'ok, I have lots to keep me busy while I wait for the commit
[14:19:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> (smile)
[14:20:03 CST(-0600)] <michelled> anastasiac on one side writing docs me on the other writing tests - talk about extreme (tongue)
[14:20:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Maybe you could stand there, looking over my shoulders, tapping your foot in anticipation
[14:20:21 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> would that help?
[14:20:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> A little Jeopardy music to go with it?
[14:20:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> No pressure, colinclark (tongue)
[14:20:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok, Justin_o, what's your Kingly decree?
[14:21:28 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: so yes.. i think you can commit without the tests.. provided they are in tomorrow
[14:21:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok
[14:21:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> deal
[14:21:43 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> I think there are a few other jiras worth some discusson here.
[14:21:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Is there a JIRA for backwards compatibility of Uploader?
[14:22:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I guess it might also just fall under general tidying up of Uploader, for which there is already one
[14:22:50 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: yah.. i don't know if there is one specific...
[14:22:58 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i guess we can add one if needed
[14:23:11 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> clown does using aria-describedby for a tool tip make sense?
[14:23:19 CST(-0600)] <mlam> Justin_o: just so you know, i'm now working on  FLUID-3757, which is the generic code clean up JIRA....but uploader focused
[14:23:53 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> mlam: that's alright as long as the changes fall under that jira
[14:24:03 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> so one issue we may want to look at is http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3811
[14:24:09 CST(-0600)] <clown> heidi_, yes
[14:24:11 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: just sent out an e-mail recently about it to the list
[14:24:14 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> cool
[14:24:30 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: did you want to summarize what you found
[14:24:46 CST(-0600)] <jhung> okay.
[14:25:03 CST(-0600)] <jhung> The problem is that previous edits are persisting in IE despite being refreshed.
[14:25:10 CST(-0600)] <clown> heidi_, what's the context?
[14:25:43 CST(-0600)] <jhung> I suspected a caching issue, but turning off the caching didn't solve the problem. So I did some looking into other text fields, and noticed that most are wrapped in a form.
[14:25:56 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> clown hover over the page numbers here: http://build.fluidproject.org/infusion/demos/pager/html/pager.html
[14:26:17 CST(-0600)] <jhung> So I think we need to investigate a bit more to see why IE is behaving this way. May be related to the lack of FORM elements.
[14:26:36 CST(-0600)] <jhung> The demo is usable.
[14:26:36 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> clown not sure how tool-tippy that kind of info is
[14:26:50 CST(-0600)] <jhung> So I don't think it's critical if we don't have time to fix.
[14:28:09 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: okay.. so for IE8 users they will see the old text from a previous edit if they refresh the page?
[14:28:25 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> cindyli: i wonder if you can see if this is an issue for you in aTutor
[14:28:27 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> on IE8
[14:28:32 CST(-0600)] <clown> heidi_: canonical example: a tool bar button. the bit of text that, well, labels the button is specified using aria-labelledby; but when you hover over it with the mouse for a tool tip, that's specified by aria-describedby. The other main use of aria-describedby is a replacement of the html "longdesc" attribute.
[14:28:46 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i'm currious how it behaves when their is persistence involved
[14:28:50 CST(-0600)] <jhung> justin_o: exactly. May be a problem in other versions of IE as well.
[14:29:42 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> clown makes sense
[14:30:40 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> Justin_o: yes, saw ur msg. issue 3811?
[14:30:48 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> cindyli: yes{color}
[14:31:01 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> Justin_o: ok. checking
[14:31:14 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> cindyli: thanks..
[14:32:06 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> okay... while cindyli is checking that.. another issue is http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3864
[14:32:18 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> this one isn't on bug parade, but harris found it while working on another issue
[14:32:39 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> I think we can leave it for now.. and look into it for another release.. but wanted to know if other people had thoughts
[14:32:45 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> clown one more thing, it seems that the text point to by describedby elements is still used by aria even if display:none is set on that text. is that a common practice? seems like a slick implementation
[14:33:36 CST(-0600)] <clown> heidi_: what do you mean by "used by aria"?
[14:33:38 CST(-0600)] <jhung> Justin_o: I think that can be left alone for now.
[14:36:00 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> okay
[14:36:01 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> one more thing
[14:36:04 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3831
[14:36:14 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> this one is about the tooltip in pager
[14:36:30 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> the more general aspect is whether we want to create the wrapper for this release or not
[14:36:33 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> heidi_: Justin_o: jhung: regarding 3811, cannot re-produce in atutor. tried with ie8
[14:36:33 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Yes, how are we doing with the "tooltip wrapper component"< justin?
[14:36:39 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> the jquery ui tooltip is in place and working now
[14:37:01 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> cindyli: thanks..
[14:37:02 CST(-0600)] <clown> heidi_: I think you mean, "even though the element is marked display:none, the information is still published to the a11y api, and the AT is making use of it"
[14:37:05 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> Justin_o: npnp
[14:37:08 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> so i think we can set 3811 aside then
[14:37:49 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon2: so far the tooltip wrapper is not going so well.. i had got it generally wrapped just to keep the options consistent across use.. so adding in the delay and styling options for example..
[14:38:02 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon2: still haven't been able to get a single tooltip working though
[14:38:03 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Justin_o - that seems to be looking good
[14:38:07 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> What do you mean?
[14:38:48 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> so if we want to have just a single instance of the tooltip plugin per component, that isn't yet working
[14:38:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Ok
[14:38:59 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i'm having trouble getting it to open
[14:39:08 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> But it works by creating multiple instances of the wrapper?
[14:39:09 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Ok
[14:39:17 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I'd be happy to take a bit of time to help out with that if you want
[14:39:22 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> so i can call the open function, but since it's attached to a dummy element that is hidden.. it doesn't seem to want to show up anywhere
[14:39:32 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Oh, that is interesting
[14:39:43 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon2: sure... i have some code on my system...
[14:39:59 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> but maybe we should time box this.. i know you are quite busy with other things Bosmon2
[14:40:32 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Justin_o: was that the last JIRA we were going to discuss here?
[14:40:38 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> michelled: yep
[14:40:40 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> that's it i think
[14:40:44 CST(-0600)] <michelled> ok, so my list is:
[14:40:51 CST(-0600)] <michelled> mlam: patch for 3635, 3860
[14:40:51 CST(-0600)] <michelled> michelled: review and commit patch for 3635
[14:40:51 CST(-0600)] <michelled> harriswong: patch for 3848, 3849, 3850
[14:40:52 CST(-0600)] <michelled> someone: review and commit patch for 3848, 3849, 3850
[14:40:52 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Bosmon2: review and commit 3862
[14:40:52 CST(-0600)] <michelled> michelled: review and commit patch for 3870
[14:40:52 CST(-0600)] <michelled> mlam: review and commit 3753
[14:40:53 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Bosmon2: unit tests for 3487
[14:40:53 CST(-0600)] <michelled> colinclark: 3872
[14:40:54 CST(-0600)] <michelled> colinclark: merge branch for 3722
[14:40:54 CST(-0600)] <michelled> michelled and colinclark: tests for progressive enhancement
[14:40:55 CST(-0600)] <michelled> mlam: 3757
[14:40:55 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Bosmon2 and Justin_o: 3831
[14:41:11 CST(-0600)] <michelled> fluid-everyone: is anyone working on any other JIRA issue for the 1.3 release that is not listed above
[14:41:15 CST(-0600)] <michelled> ?
[14:41:19 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Yes
[14:41:22 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I am working on 3730
[14:41:39 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> heidi_: i think is looking into our use of aria-describedby
[14:41:45 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I also have a patch to commit for 3707
[14:42:03 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> particularly she was looking at FLUID-3828
[14:43:20 CST(-0600)] <michelled> do we need to talk about any of these three? are they going to get in today?
[14:43:40 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> And then the main work on 3711
[14:46:30 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> michelled: l think we have decided that if 3711 doesn't get finished in time, we can live with it... but it would be really good to have it in.. i think the same can apply for the describedby stuff... since it seems to work, but maybe just a slightly incorrect implementation of the aria
[14:47:13 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> for FLUID-3730 I think it's the same also... unless the uploader stuff depends on it
[14:47:20 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark, mlam ^
[14:47:31 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Work in 3711 and 3730 are pretty much done actually
[14:47:39 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I just need to deal with the "dynamic case" and add some test cases
[14:47:42 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon2: really... excellent
[14:47:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: sorry, one sec
[14:47:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> oh, cool
[14:48:03 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> So I guess today and tomorrow are just going to be a mess of cleaning up a dozen little bits and pieces
[14:48:35 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon2: yes... we're going to try to focus on the "general" bug parade issues
[14:48:50 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> like version numbers, licenses, copyrights, and etc.
[14:49:52 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> michelled: that's it for me.. i think Bosmon2 had something else to talk about
[14:54:22 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> yes, I'd like to talk about things we are planning to deprecate in this release
[14:54:33 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I would like to deprecate the mergePolicy of "reverse", and also the concept of "global options"
[14:54:44 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> The latter are the things accessed by calling fluid.defaults with a first argument of "true"
[14:55:04 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I would also like to propose that we allocate a new name for fluid.model.getBeanValue as simply "fluid.getValue"
[14:55:18 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Since this is such a core framework function I think we should plan to keep the old name around for quite a few release cycles
[14:55:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon2: If I remember, Reorderer was the only one using both reverse merges and global options, no?
[14:55:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And if so, since you're the one currently working on Reorderer, is it going to be okay with this change?
[14:55:53 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Well, I was just planning to "announce deprecation" in this release
[14:55:59 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> So that we could remove it in a subsequent one
[14:56:04 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> The impl will stay the same
[14:56:05 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> justin_o couldn't replicate 3813 and 3812 .... instead found the feedback is.... the url of the page
[14:56:10 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> focus issue
[14:57:04 CST(-0600)] <jhung> everyone: gotta run. See you all tomorrow
[14:57:07 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Yes, this is another framework feature that noone figured out how to use, except the framework itself (smile)
[14:57:40 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> And if we get past that, I think there was another feature I wanted to deprecate too, let me think what it was....
[14:59:38 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Is anyone still here? (tongue)
[15:05:12 CST(-0600)] <clown> everyone: Bosmon2 is asking if anyone is still here...
[15:08:20 CST(-0600)] <clown> well, Bosmon2, from where I sit, I can see all sorts of fluid people. I guess they're not paying attention to the channel.
[15:09:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I've been distracted with debugging, Bosmon2
[15:09:30 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Do we have an up vote on fluid.model.getBeanValue -> fluid.getValue?
[15:09:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> +1 for deprecating the reverse merge policy and global options
[15:09:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> For fluid.model.getBeanValue -> fluid.getValue(), I'm sort of a +0.5
[15:10:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I am hugely in favour of improving naming
[15:10:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I assume we'd do the same for setBeanValue()
[15:10:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm slightly on the fence only because I wonder about punting this for another release
[15:10:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but I guess it's relatively trivial
[15:10:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'd probably defer here to Justin_o and anastasiac
[15:10:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> But as you know, I'm always a huge +1 for simpler, better names
[15:11:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> especially since it's a trivial change and similarly trivial to support backwards compatibility
[15:11:33 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I would say it would be trivial, yes
[15:11:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm sure Justin_o will be back shortly
[15:11:42 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> We could do it as part of our "general cleanup" tomorrow
[15:11:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> he's a popular guy today
[15:11:53 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> A global search and replace plus a function copy
[15:12:32 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> +1 for the choice of new name; should we plan a timeline for removing the 'bean' versions, or just deprecate them in perpetuity?
[15:13:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> anastasiac: Ordinarily, I'm good with a "2 or so releases" deprecation strategy
[15:13:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but this is pretty central infrastructure
[15:13:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I imagine it could be deprecated for quite awhile
[15:13:34 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> clown, bosmon: if you want to get everyone's attention, try the new "fluid-everyone" keyword that we're all supposed to have configured our clients with
[15:14:05 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> colinclark, sounds good: in perpetuity until we decide otherwise (perhaps 2.0?)
[15:14:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> anastasiac: though people who don't want to or who tend to be lurkers are quite free to refrain from configuring their clients this way (smile)
[15:14:40 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> of course (smile)
[15:15:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> anastasiac: so you're +1?
[15:15:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm +1
[15:15:56 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> yes, +1
[15:15:58 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> we should create a JIRA for the renaming of get/setBeanValue - would this be part of tomorrow's "clean-up" Justin_o?
[15:16:10 CST(-0600)] * anastasiac knows justin won't see that right now
[15:17:32 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> colinclark, Bosmon2: I'm wondering if there are any other renaming tasks we might be able to resolve as easily?
[15:17:46 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> or are most of them a bit more contentious/difficult?
[15:18:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> There are probably quite a few
[15:18:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Does anything spring to mind?
[15:18:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I mean, there are countless things we'll want to rename
[15:18:50 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> (smile)
[15:18:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but as you say, how many of them are fairly clear cut?
[15:18:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> not sure
[15:19:36 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> well, I can't think of any clear-cut ones right now (smile)
[15:19:53 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> and we have more than enough to do tomorrow
[15:23:35 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> FYI colinclark, Bosmon2, Justin_o: I've filed a jira for renaming getBeanValue: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3883 I'll leave it to the King to decide whether this should be part of tomorrow's clean-up work.
[15:23:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks!
[15:24:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon2: question
[15:25:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Back for the AEGIS demo sprint, I borrowed a few things from your FLUID-3730 branch
[15:25:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The key thing was your aria labeller
[15:25:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I assume this remains in your branch, rather than in trunk
[15:26:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And if so, are you okay with me merging a fresh version of it from your branch into trunk?
[15:26:29 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> This will likely cause you a slight headache when merging your Reorderer branch tonight
[15:26:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> TREE CONFLICTS!
[15:37:04 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Colin - I am well beyond ()£$U%(*$%U()*U TREE CONFLICTS
[15:37:21 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Since I transferred all my changes manually to trunk last night after I wasted 2 $(%U**($£%U) hours trying to get SVN to uncorrupt my working copy
[15:37:25 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> So don't worry about that
[15:37:29 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Please don't merge the branch
[15:37:34 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> It contains completely stale stuff
[15:37:41 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> If you have any changes please send them to me by hand (smile)
[15:38:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon2: I believe I gave you a patch awhile ago, which you probably applied
[15:38:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so we should be good
[15:38:16 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Yes, if you mean the change to "jById"
[15:38:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yep
[15:38:23 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Yes, I have that
[15:38:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> okay, so we should be all good
[15:38:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam and I were chatting over coffee
[15:39:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and were seriously contemplating just making the switch to git
[15:39:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's one of those things
[15:39:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It'll always be inconvenient
[15:39:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> there's never a good time
[15:39:14 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Please consider this as imminently as possible....
[15:39:23 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I would do anything rather than suffer with SVN's incompetence any longer
[15:39:29 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and I have hit so many ugly SVN merge limitations in the past two months with Uploader
[15:39:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think ultimately we decided that Mercurial isn't quite there
[15:39:42 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I guess we don't know that git will necessarily do any better... but I am willing to try
[15:39:49 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Does git have "atomic working copy operations"?
[15:39:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It was great, but support for submodules was terrible
[15:39:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I dunno
[15:39:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: Do you know?
[15:40:04 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> The VERY VERY VERY WORST thing that happened to me last night was to have all of my attempts at running svn merge just HANG
[15:40:10 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> And naturally each one corrupted my working copy yet further
[15:40:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> awful
[15:40:38 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I thought it was an Eclipse thing but running it from the command line did just the same
[15:41:01 CST(-0600)] <mlam> Bosmon2: what do you mean by "atomic working copy operations"?
[15:41:19 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> mlam - I mean that, if something goes wrong with a VC command, it is possible to back out in a way that doesn't leave your working copy corrupt
[15:41:29 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Say you issue a command and there is a network failure halfway through
[15:41:49 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> SVN at least guarantees to keep the REPOSITORY uncorrupt in this case (unlike CVS) but it gives you no guarantees about your working copy
[15:41:56 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Really, it just doesn't seem to care what crap it leaves you with
[15:42:42 CST(-0600)] <mlam> Ah. Well, that I'm not sure about, but GIT does maintain a local repository as well as a remote, so if something like this were to happen, you can easily revert back
[15:43:35 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Well ok ... I guess one would hope that it guarantees not corrupt the LOCAL repository (tongue)
[15:43:54 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> As I understand it the git concept of a "working copy" is fairly weak in any case
[15:43:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Everything is just repositories
[15:44:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon2, anastasiac: I guess the extreme naming suggestion for getBeanValue() might simply be the ultimate: "get()"
[15:44:21 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> colinclark - would you go for that?
[15:44:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It strikes me as a little bit sloppy, but on the other hand it is the getter
[15:44:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it's short and simple--perhaps arguably a bit ambiguous
[15:44:49 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I wouldn't mind it, I suppose, but the issue is that in talking to people it might become too short to be recognised in a sentence (tongue)
[15:45:01 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I guess people would just start saying "fluid.get"
[15:45:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yes
[15:45:16 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> justin_o pls add FLUID-3828 for review
[15:45:20 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I guess I am a little afraid of just "get"
[15:45:57 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> it is certainly daring P
[15:45:59 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> (tongue)
[15:46:15 CST(-0600)] <mlam> Bosmon2: yah, that was the impression I got when we were planning the switch from SVN. There are repositories everywhere and creating additional repositories was a snap.
[15:47:00 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> OK
[15:47:07 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> colinclark - I think I'm feeling better about it already
[15:47:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> michelled, anastasiac, Justin_o: any further opinions?
[15:49:13 CST(-0600)] * anastasiac is reviewing the api
[15:50:08 CST(-0600)] <michelled> I like the idea of 'get' and I think it would be clear since we pass it an elpath
[15:50:30 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> well, colinclark, "fluid.get()" does seem a bit abrupt, but it seems suitably accurate. I don't have any valid objections.
[15:52:37 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Do you have any invalid objections? (tongue)
[15:52:38 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> michelled, Justin_o, heidi_: posted updated patch for http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3848, with fixes towards the testcases with IE8.
[15:52:50 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> justin_o fyi new jira for inline edit nvda feedback: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3884
[15:54:44 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> heidi_: thanks
[15:56:04 CST(-0600)] <michelled> thanks harriswong
[15:59:45 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon2: here's a possible invalid ojbection to get()... I'm afraid it may not be explicit enough about what you expect to be getting
[16:09:09 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Well, it's a good point.... I am weighing "getValue" and "get" in my mind
[16:09:29 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> "getValue" is certainly sort of descriptive... but then you ask yourself... what is it that you "get"
[16:09:32 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> And really.... it is "anything"
[16:09:47 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I mean, given that there are no real constraints on what you are getting, it does seem plausible to simply name the thing "get"
[16:09:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I mean, it "gets" anything that might be held at the particular path....
[16:18:33 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i guess i'm somewhat concerned that people won't understand what a get on a string would return...
[16:19:12 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> meaning that people won't understand it is an ELpath
[16:24:52 CST(-0600)] <mlam> Justin_o: posting combined patches for FLUID-3635 and FLUID-3860
[16:25:16 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Well, what about "getValue" or "getBeanValue" communicated the idea that it was an EL path? (tongue)
[16:25:24 CST(-0600)] <mlam> The patch will be posted under FLUID-3635
[16:25:38 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> If they don't understand what an EL path is, I doubt that the name of the function will help them in any case
[16:28:19 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> mlam: thanks... can you poke michelle and tell her about those patches
[16:28:50 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon2: that's true.. but i'm not saying we should use those names either (smile)
[16:29:53 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon2: how about something like getValueAtPath() although this is horribly long
[16:33:15 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> Justin_o, Bosmon2, michelled: Added a comment on http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3707, I don't think we can just put up a one-line-fix for this.
[16:33:39 CST(-0600)] <mlam> Justin_o: both patches have been reviewed and committed
[16:35:12 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> mlam: thanks
[16:35:22 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> mlam: are the jiras closed?
[16:35:37 CST(-0600)] <mlam> i'm about to do that now
[16:36:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: You have the same naming tendencies that I do (wink)
[16:37:40 CST(-0600)] <mlam> Justin_o: both jiras are now closed
[16:37:55 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> mlam: thanks