Page Comparison

[08:50:52 EST(-0500)] * jacobfarber1 (n=Main@CPE00095bc35ea1-CM001692f5798c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #fluid-work
[09:38:01 EST(-0500)] * anastasiac (n=team@142.150.154.160) has joined #fluid-work
[09:38:17 EST(-0500)] * Topic is 'Happy Black Friday!' set by anastasiac on 2008-11-28 09:38:17 EST(-0500)
[09:42:07 EST(-0500)] * clown (n=clown@guiseppi.atrc.utoronto.ca) has joined #fluid-work
[10:25:50 EST(-0500)] * phiggins (n=dante@c-68-34-199-67.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) has joined #fluid-work
[11:12:06 EST(-0500)] * colinclark (n=colin@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[11:20:09 EST(-0500)] * Topic is 'SVN is down! Is the world ending?' set by colinclark on 2008-11-28 11:20:09 EST(-0500)
[11:28:44 EST(-0500)] * Topic is 'SVN is back. Normalcy is restored.' set by colinclark on 2008-11-28 11:28:44 EST(-0500)
[12:19:35 EST(-0500)] * Bosmon (n=Antranig@ginger.caret.cam.ac.uk) has joined #fluid-work
[12:34:13 EST(-0500)] * clown_ (n=clown@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[13:02:25 EST(-0500)] * clown (n=clown@user145-103.wireless.utoronto.ca) has joined #fluid-work
[13:08:20 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> jacobfarber1, are you there?
[13:08:36 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> yes
[13:08:39 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> no standup?
[13:08:44 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> oh!
[13:08:45 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> jon and I are talking
[13:11:22 EST(-0500)] * colinclark (n=colin@user145-119.wireless.utoronto.ca) has joined #fluid-work
[13:14:05 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> so anastasiac you were saying something about css?
[13:14:31 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> I've got some super simple markup for the layout reorderer tutorial.
[13:14:41 EST(-0500)] * anastasiac commits so jacobfarber1 can see it...
[13:14:58 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> ok, html folder in fluid-components?
[13:15:01 EST(-0500)] * anastasiac searches for the JIRA number
[13:15:04 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> ah
[13:15:08 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> no, it's in the sandbox
[13:15:09 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> hang on
[13:15:57 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> sorry, should have done that first...
[13:16:16 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> http://source.fluidproject.org/svn/sandbox/tutorials/layout-customizer/
[13:16:28 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> in the css file
[13:16:32 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> http://source.fluidproject.org/svn/sandbox/tutorials/layout-customizer/modules.css
[13:16:51 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> the style ".oneColumn div" has a border
[13:17:00 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> and the style .orderable-selected as a border
[13:17:13 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> ok
[13:17:20 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> lemme have a look-see
[13:17:23 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> it seems the orderable-selected style is being trumped by the other one
[13:18:26 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> so the .oneColumn border overrrides it?
[13:18:32 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> seems to...
[13:18:54 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> ok, it needs a better selector I guess
[13:18:57 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> this implies that component users may not simply be able to define styles for the component styles, and expect them to work
[13:19:08 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> what needs a better selector?
[13:19:17 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> the effect that SHOULD win
[13:19:24 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> which in this case
[13:19:26 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> what would be a better selector?
[13:19:49 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> would mean change the .oneColumn div selector to be less specific
[13:20:00 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> so that it allows itself to be easily overriden
[13:20:00 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> hm
[13:20:14 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> this sounds like a bit of a problem to me
[13:20:23 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> well, heres the thing
[13:20:36 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> we could slap !important on the .orderable effect
[13:21:01 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> it would work too (I think)
[13:21:18 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> but?
[13:21:51 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> well, its always a bad thing to NEED !important to do the job
[13:22:03 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> but with us I guess its different
[13:22:29 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> since ppl usually dont work hand in hand with our css stuff, we need to clobber them more often then not
[13:22:34 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> so in the end
[13:22:48 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> I guess this is a case, again, of us needing to work with other styles we're not aware of
[13:22:56 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> yes
[13:23:03 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> which cant happen easily
[13:23:18 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> we're always going to be colliding with something
[13:23:25 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> ok, so here's the scenario:
[13:23:48 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> i'm writing the tutorial, and saying "if you create styles for these classes, they'll be applied"
[13:23:54 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> perhaps what we need is a caveat:
[13:24:08 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> "if the styles don't seem to be working, you might need to add "important" to them"
[13:24:28 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> how would that seem to you, as a potential component user
[13:24:29 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> ?
[13:24:41 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> hmmm
[13:24:51 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> can I think about this for a moment?
[13:25:05 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> NO!! You must answer, THIS INSTANT!!
[13:25:08 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac>
[13:25:10 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> NO!
[13:25:12 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> YES!
[13:25:13 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> OK!
[13:25:19 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> here's what I think
[13:25:27 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> as far as CSS goes
[13:25:42 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> it will never fit everyone's needs 100% of the time
[13:25:57 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> I think its understood that if you download our css
[13:26:07 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> you might need to tinker with it
[13:26:14 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> hold on:
[13:26:23 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> to get it perfect for your (the implementors) needs
[13:26:23 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> in this case, we're not dealing with our css at all
[13:26:23 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> pl
[13:26:25 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> ok
[13:26:33 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> no?
[13:26:42 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> I'm trying to separate layout reorderer instructions from skinning system instructions
[13:26:42 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> states css, no?
[13:26:46 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> keep it simple
[13:27:02 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> using our stylesheets is a separate issue from using our component
[13:27:06 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> can I call you on skype?
[13:27:12 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> my fingers ache
[13:27:14 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> related, yes, but they shouldn't be required
[13:27:27 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> sure, give me a sec to get connected
[13:27:51 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> "a.cheetham"
[13:28:58 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> doesnt look like your online
[13:29:02 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> ok, I'm online now
[13:29:07 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> (it took a while)
[13:44:54 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> ok, just for the record, I'm going to summarize our conversation:
[13:45:08 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> It's better to not recommend using "!important" because
[13:45:08 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> 1) if they're writing their own css, they probably already know all about it
[13:45:08 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> 2) if they don't know all about it, we could be helping them get themselves into trouble
[13:45:09 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> So the tutorial will essentially strongly recommend using the skinning system, and provide some basic information for people who don't want to.
[13:45:41 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> jacobfarber1 has volunteered to review my tutorial once it's completed.
[13:58:54 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> A Friday smile: http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/081128/K112808AU.html
[14:16:21 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> anastasiac: Wow....and it even comes with the pins they ask you not to use....
[14:16:25 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> anastasiac: I think that makes a lot of sense.
[14:17:45 EST(-0500)] * Topic is 'Don't harm President Sarkozy's dignity by pricking voodoo dolls.' set by colinclark on 2008-11-28 14:17:45 EST(-0500)
[14:38:32 EST(-0500)] * clown (n=clown@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[14:39:35 EST(-0500)] * clown (n=clown@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[14:47:08 EST(-0500)] * clown (n=clown@guiseppi.atrc.utoronto.ca) has joined #fluid-work
[15:06:04 EST(-0500)] * colinclark (n=colin@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[17:32:48 EST(-0500)] * clown (n=clown@guiseppi.atrc.utoronto.ca) has left #fluid-work